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Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

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Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#791

Post by xerxespoy »

wvenable wrote: post #777
xerxespoy wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends when you ask. Most times checking this thread it's been dire. The current top 3 commenters, comprising the first page of comments: "The problem is that it's not totally clear whether Giuliani believed any of his crazy-talk. It may actually be the case that Giuliani is just off his rocker." "I think it's nuts for a modern democracy to allow for anything but open source software being used to count paper bal…

What comments are you expecting to see? This is not the medium for long form balanced well researched essay comments.

In general: long-form, balanced, well-researched essay comments are exactly what's exhibited on HN, and precisely the reason many frequent the site.

It is starkly obvious to frequent visitors when comment threads deviate from this norm into highly-polarised, emotional and often baseless and yet miraculously-synchronised agenda. That this only occurs pertaining to particular topics, and reliably so, reveals to incumbent readership that those engaging in this activity, whilst possibly attempting to blend in, are actually standing naked in full view.

Indeed, in some cases this ineptitude suggests a low level of social awareness possibly consistent with that of a language model.

Regardless, tools to assist genuine readers in filtering such content and reversing its own filtering is a suitable mitigation, largely without negative side-effects.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#792

Post by JshWright »

yters wrote: post #773
JshWright wrote: post #762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peter Navarro is a _highly_ partisan source, and not someone you should assume to be arguing in good faith. Are there other, more credible, sources that are influencing your thinking? There is zero evidence supporting the claim of widespread fraud. Unless you have some evidence of some kind, it really seems like you would prefer to believe there is some vast conspiracy and you are writing off all the evidence to the…

I am looking at the lawsuits and articles linked from Navarro's report. The lawsuits sound pretty credible to me. When I read the court's reason for rejecting the lawsuit it sounds like the judge is looking for technical reasons to reject the lawsuit. When I look for articles explaining why the lawsuits are rejected en mass, every article I have found is very hand wavy, stating the judges are appointed by Trump so we…

Ok... but the 200k thing is easily debunked... The SURE system is not the official record of votes, the certified county results are. It is not unexpected that those wouldn't match (the counties were prioritizing getting the elections certified and hadn't yet published their results to SURE (which, again, isn't the official source of truth, and therefore wasn't a priority). Several large counties had not uploaded their data to SURE, as of the time of the press release you linked to.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9887147...

You claim that the "spot checks hold up", but the one example you chose to cite (presumably one of the ones you believe holds up) falls apart with just a tiny bit of research.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#793

Post by rspeele »

Thorrez wrote: post #724
throwaway32871 wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's too difficult to decide credibility with the limited information we have and so the best thing to do is to look at opposing arguments to see which thing makes the most sense logically. In that respect, here is (I believe) the report which shows the numbers put out by the machine are not reliable, at least, and also gives evidence that 2020 log files were deleted whereas 2016 log files were not: https://www.9and1…

>We reviewed the Tabulation logs in their entirety for 11/6/2020. The election logs for Antrim County consist of 15,676 total lines or events. Of the 15,676 there were a total of 10,667 critical errors/warnings or a 68.05% error rate. >The allowable election error rate established by the Federal Election Commission guidelines is of 1 in 250,000 ballots (.0008%). We observed an error rate of 68.05%. This demonstrated…

Yes, when I heard that there was a report of "68%" error rate from the machines, I was a little surprised. Then when I heard it came from comedian Russell Ramsland, I thought: "Oh, I bet he did something like count all the messages in a log file and divide that by the number of ballots counted". And sure enough...

It's like the telephone scammers that try to dupe old people into giving them access to their PC by convincing them that they have a virus. Their proof? Get the trusting boomer to open the Windows Event Viewer, which on pretty much anybody's PC is replete with trivial warnings and errors. Then pretend that means something is terribly, terribly wrong.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#794

Post by yters »

JshWright wrote: post #792
yters wrote: post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am looking at the lawsuits and articles linked from Navarro's report. The lawsuits sound pretty credible to me. When I read the court's reason for rejecting the lawsuit it sounds like the judge is looking for technical reasons to reject the lawsuit. When I look for articles explaining why the lawsuits are rejected en mass, every article I have found is very hand wavy, stating the judges are appointed by Trump so we…

Ok... but the 200k thing is easily debunked... The SURE system is not the official record of votes, the certified county results are. It is not unexpected that those wouldn't match (the counties were prioritizing getting the elections certified and hadn't yet published their results to SURE (which, again, isn't the official source of truth, and therefore wasn't a priority). Several large counties had not uploaded the…

Very interesting. Do you know of a way I can confirm this discrepancy is resolved? I can find registered voter counts and votes tallied, but not votes cast counts.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#795

Post by yters »

javagram wrote: post #759
yters wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the specific votes public record? If not, it is impossible to verify votes were recorded correctly. But the addresses being public record is interesting. If that information is public record then it would be easy for citizens to randomly verify enough records to ascertain whether enough votes were dumped to make a difference. If what you say is correct then I can try verifying it myself. Why has no one publicly d…

> UPDATE: I just checked the GA website, and all it gives me is voter IDs and whom they voted for. No way I can verify vote fraud did not occur from that information. No addresses or names. I would suggest that if you weren’t able to find this information using google, you should think about what that means for your research skills and the skills/knowledge of those who create and propagate the voter fraud lies. Some…

Thanks, I will see if I can get ahold of the list.

However, I would still need a second list of valid addresses for each person to create a true validation.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#796

Post by yters »

javagram wrote: post #760
yters wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly is the possibility of vote dumping and vote flipping eliminated?

> How exactly is the possibility of vote dumping and vote flipping eliminated? You cannot simply add ballots to the election as the totals would then be incorrect. (There would be more votes than people recorded as voting) What is “Vote Dumping”? Do you mean inserting fraudulent paper ballots into the stored ballots to be counted? The election was recorded on physical paper ballots. Are you alleging a vast conspiracy…

An election theft is conspiracy by definition. The question is whether the conspiracy is feasible. But it is feasible if only a few counties or cities committed fraud. What makes conspiracy infeasible is widespread collusion without a mechanism of coordination and ensuring secrecy. Collusion in a few large municipalities does not seem obviously out of the question.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#797

Post by yters »

bena wrote: post #761
yters wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but this exception proves the point. There are indeed electronic voting machines widely considered to be suspect. So the notion that electronic voting machines could potentially be used to commit fraud in this election is not out of the question.

You were specifically trying to cast doubt on Dominion. And now that your statement has been outed as false, you're moving the goalposts to "voting machines in general".

No, Dominion purchased these questionable voting machines, so they clearly possess questionable voting machines. So my major claim that Dominion possesses questionable voting machines is substantiated. In fact ES&S equipment is used by Georgia.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#798

Post by wvenable »

xerxespoy wrote: post #791
wvenable wrote: post #777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What comments are you expecting to see? This is not the medium for long form balanced well researched essay comments.

In general: long-form, balanced, well-researched essay comments are exactly what's exhibited on HN, and precisely the reason many frequent the site. It is starkly obvious to frequent visitors when comment threads deviate from this norm into highly-polarised, emotional and often baseless and yet miraculously-synchronised agenda. That this only occurs pertaining to particular topics, and reliably so, reveals to incumbe…

> well-researched essay comments are exactly what's exhibited on HN

For technical subjects. If you want a good conversation about politics, you should go where those experts are.

> yet miraculously-synchronised agenda.

Hey look, a conspiracy theory! As for highly-polarised, emotional and often baseless, you'll find that wherever politics are discussed from forums to the dinner table. There's no point in adding tools so people can create their own bubbles inside of off-topic discussions.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#799

Post by dragonwriter »

yters wrote: post #796
javagram wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How exactly is the possibility of vote dumping and vote flipping eliminated? You cannot simply add ballots to the election as the totals would then be incorrect. (There would be more votes than people recorded as voting) What is “Vote Dumping”? Do you mean inserting fraudulent paper ballots into the stored ballots to be counted? The election was recorded on physical paper ballots. Are you alleging a vast conspiracy…

An election theft is conspiracy by definition. The question is whether the conspiracy is feasible. But it is feasible if only a few counties or cities committed fraud. What makes conspiracy infeasible is widespread collusion without a mechanism of coordination and ensuring secrecy. Collusion in a few large municipalities does not seem obviously out of the question.

> An election theft is conspiracy by definition.

No, its not.

Either a single actor with appropriate access or multiple independent actors not acting in coordination could effect the theft of an election without any conspiracy.

Conspiracy requires an agreement to work together; that might help with an election theft but it is not “by definition” necessary for election theft.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#800

Post by tshaddox »

jariel wrote: post #787
tshaddox wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The defence is 'I legitimately believed the election was stolen in Georgia, therefore, pressuring state officials to investigate said issues' doesn't itself constitute a crime. You can’t kill someone because you think you are acting in self-defense. You have to actually be acting in self-defense. Moreover, pressuring officials to manufacture fake evidence, or act as if they had evidence they don’t have, surely ough…

We're not talking about murder. We're talking about a different kind of crime. The law states someone has to 'knowingly try to interfere etc' but the challenge is that you'd have to prove that Trump knew he lost. If he truly believed he had won, well, then he'd just be trying to fix the election, not rig it, right? The call was along the lines of how Mafia bosses talk, so that they don't implicate themselves. Here ar…

> The law states someone has to 'knowingly try to interfere etc' but the challenge is that you'd have to prove that Trump knew he lost.

But surely he was knowingly try to interfere even if he had in fact won.

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