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Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

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Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#241

Post by mamon »

Nasrudith wrote: post #188
colejohnson66 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve also wondered why there aren’t “enough” fines. Are the countries just being cautious because they want to establish precedent before going after the “big fish” like Facebook or Google? Or is it something else?

It sounds like a fear of backlash - essentially if you find like 3% of the population with parking tickets it is fine. If you fine 40% to 60% then you get a large contingent pissed off at you - regardless of validity of the laws and enforcement unpopularity is perilous to laws and officials.

If 40% to 60% of population gets fined then that means the law is stupid* and should be abolished. Backlash on law enforcement is totaly understandable.

*"stupid" is relative term. Laws are made for particular society, if almost a half of that society disagrees with the rule then it shouldn't be a rule.

Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#242

Post by corty »

curryst wrote: post #177
piva00 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With that they win the public's opinion. I make an effort to always explain to people I hear complaining about those pop-ups why they've been made to be annoying. Usually it helps to turn their opinion against GDPR towards the companies employing the dark patterns. No one likes to be blatantly manipulated.

I think that's a long lost battle and they know it. They're going for attrition. People don't want to be tracked, and clicking all the don't track buttons 78 times a day is annoying, so eventually they say fuck it and just start clicking Accept All. There need to be fines for this. They're clearly violating the spirit of the law, if not the exact letter (and I think much of Europe has legal systems that follow the sp…

In practically all cases it is against the exact letter of the law: "It shall be as easy to withdraw as to give consent."

Article 7 (3) 4. https://gdpr-info.eu/art-7-gdpr/

Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#243

Post by anticristi »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #212
yarcob wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just looked up the relevant section in the GDPR, and it's actually pretty clear: It's section 9 "Processing of special categories of personal data" https://gdpr-info.eu/art-9-gdpr/ > 1. Processing of personal data revealing racial or ethnic origin, political opinions, religious or philosophical beliefs, or trade union membership, and the processing of genetic data, biometric data for the purpose of uniquely identif…

So any data that does not fall under that blacklist is free game? I still find that quite arbitrary to make that distinction, not to mention the wiggle room it leaves with many of those categories being rather ill-defined. At what point does an opinion become “political”? what is “racial” an “ethnic origin” is quite open to interpretation; when is a belief “philosophical”? The way I understand this paragraph, it coul…

"Jein" (German for "yno"). Look at it in historic context. This article can be seen as an anti-holocaust clause. Don't collect data that was too often used to harm minorities.

Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#244

Post by pbhjpbhj »

Saint_Genet wrote: post #171
jusssi wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gay men are less likely to have children, so not having the expenses resulting from that leaves more disposable income. This is what I've seen cited as a reason multiple times. I have no reference to point to, maybe someone else does?

A fairly substantial part of the Grindr usrbase is made up of ostensibly straight married family fathers.

Wouldn't that be "bi[-curious] married family fathers", mainly, assuming you're not suggesting they all fathered children against their will. Or, maybe you mean people who never had/never intended to have homosexual sex?

Are there published stats you're referencing?

Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#245

Post by stretchcat »

Hitton wrote: post #64

I'm surprised about: >Consent must also be freely given. The DPA highlighted that users should have a real choice not to consent without any negative consequences. Grindr made use of the app conditional on consenting to data sharing or to paying a subscription fee. I thought that this was allowed. Kind of puts companies depending on advertising in really bad position. One would expect that having choice of paying or…

> Kind of puts companies depending on advertising in really bad position

Good. I hope these companies die. This business model is more toxic than Dow Chemical.

Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#246

Post by Blikkentrekker »

anticristi wrote: post #243
Blikkentrekker wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So any data that does not fall under that blacklist is free game? I still find that quite arbitrary to make that distinction, not to mention the wiggle room it leaves with many of those categories being rather ill-defined. At what point does an opinion become “political”? what is “racial” an “ethnic origin” is quite open to interpretation; when is a belief “philosophical”? The way I understand this paragraph, it coul…

"Jein" (German for "yno"). Look at it in historic context. This article can be seen as an anti-holocaust clause. Don't collect data that was too often used to harm minorities.

Yet many data that aren't listed under it can also be used to harm minorities, and many data that are, can not.

How exactly does biometric data to identify a person, but not a name and address to do the same differ in how much it can be used to harm minorities?

They are both a means to uniquely triangulate the identity of a person, one is arbitrarily allowed but the other is not. It's as arbitrary as if not permitting murder with poisons, but permit it so long as it be done with a knife.

Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#247

Post by StavrosK »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #231
StavrosK wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 30% of profit, looks like: > Authority imposes a fine of 100 Mio NOK (€ 9.63 Mio or $ 11.69 Mio) on Grindr. An enormous fine, as Grindr only reported a profit of $ 31 Mio in 2019 - a third of which is now gone.

I mean, if they're still make profit then it's not really hurting, is it? Any impact on the decision makers?

Well if you took away 30% of my year's income I'd be quite hurt.

Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#248

Post by metalliqaz »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #122

Bug or user hostile design? Grindr presents me the third party data choice dialog every day. Sometimes multiple times per day. I reject every time. Also, it forgets that I set my units to metric regularly. Grindr is a mess. Besides it big user base, it is a garbage app.

sounds like both. sounds like a feature designed to implement a dark pattern is broken.

Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#249

Post by anticristi »

w_t_payne wrote: post #151

It seems to me that this precedent potentially kills off a big chunk of the ad-supported app economy. How are investors reacting to this?

We need to separate "showing advertisement" from "surveillance capitalism". You can (and should) show advertisement without infringing the privacy of your users.

I see two potential outcomes:

1) Ad-supported apps will serve ads without hoarding personal data, e.g., a weight tracking app will show weight-loss ads to everyone.

2) We will see more paid apps.

Just as investors don't invest in companies doing financial fraud, I'm hoping investors will also do more due diligence on the privacy posture of their portfolio.

Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#250

Post by fckthisguy »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #231
StavrosK wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 30% of profit, looks like: > Authority imposes a fine of 100 Mio NOK (€ 9.63 Mio or $ 11.69 Mio) on Grindr. An enormous fine, as Grindr only reported a profit of $ 31 Mio in 2019 - a third of which is now gone.

I mean, if they're still make profit then it's not really hurting, is it? Any impact on the decision makers?

For traded companies, the stock price usually takes a bit when this happens. That put a fire under their ass even if loosing a load of money doesn't.
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