Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The high price of mistrust

fs.blog

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 285 posts

Re: The high price of mistrust

#271

Post by randompwd »

b0rsuk wrote: post #213
randompwd wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One youtube talk I watched listed that as a sure sign democracy is under attack in a country. How does that have any legitimacy? There's no bar as to who can post on youtube.

I trust the investigative journalist Tomasz Piątek, educated at Milan University, with awards and boks more than a rando in a HN comment.

You didn't link the video or reference the speaker. You just wrote:

> One youtube talk I watched listed that as a sure sign democracy is under attack in a country.

From everyone elses perspective, you are the rando in a HN comment.

Re: The high price of mistrust

#272

Post by ozim »

bregma wrote: post #184
ndiscussion wrote: post #70

Seeing 1950's America is heartbreaking for me. I grew up in the 90s, and I never saw a trusted society. https://www.radiogunk.com/forums/index.php?threads/1950s-ame... Where's the broken glass? The needles, the poop? The stumbling drunks harassing the young women? The masses of tents where children used to play? What the fuck has happened to us?

Less censorship in the media. All that stuff was there in the 1950s as much as it is now, but you didn't see it anywhere in the media because it was not allowed by fiat of central authorities (from the Hayes office to the boardrooms of various publisher and broadcast networks). Heroin was not introduced in the 21st century and needles are not new but there are far fewer cigarette butts everywhere today. Cities stank…

I would add that photography was quite expensive back then so I bet no one was wasting his film on making photos of awful places.

It would be like judging current reality by Instagram photos, so must be that everyone is fit and travels to beautiful destinations ... well homeless people don't put their photos on Instagram.

Re: The high price of mistrust

#273

Post by pnutjam »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #193
pnutjam wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When things are going well, you can stand by and observe. We're in a death spiral and need as many hands on the tiller as possible.

The death spiral is caused by journalists putting their hands on the tiller. If people are running around lying with partisan motivations, the most important thing you can have is a source of information trusted to be at least mostly objective. Someone to take the time to do the investigation and tell you what really happened in any given case, and carry good faith arguments from each side, not institutions that pick…

Go head and spin this however you want, but I was strictly talking about a persons responsibility to vote and perform their civic duties.

Re: The high price of mistrust

#274

Post by ozim »

This article seems like "it was better back then". Well in my opinion we don't have communities like we used to have with deep trust, even the families are not the same anymore.

On the other hand I am not afraid to go to neighboring city (or when I was a kid it could be even other part of the city) so someone would come up with "hey you are not from around here, what are you looking for a trouble here son?".

We traded deep trust for broad trust. This way price of transactions on bigger scale went down a lot, even if they went up on personal or local level.

In the end broad trust is more useful for people because it enables mobility. One can move to a big city and won't be instantly scammed. If we would value deep trust only, there would be no way for people to move out from "dead end" places.

One could live his whole life in one place and have his deep trust network but that is less and less possible in the current world. That is why we need broad societal trust.

"Bowling alone" - bowling leagues and PTAs, if someone lives 2 years in one place on average he is not going to be there long enough to be accepted in his local group.

Re: The high price of mistrust

#275

Post by bollu »

kirse wrote: post #250
winrid wrote: post #111

Hopefully this isn't too much of derailing the conversation: This was something that surprised me about China when I visited, although maybe it shouldn't have. The level of community and how close people are seemed unreal, coming from the US. Maybe part of it is the "forced" community - city/urban blocks gated off with single entrance/exit ways, in some cases. I'm not sure. But the dancing every night in the street i…

The level of community and how close people are seemed unreal All of that exists in Christian churches and their deep (but often quiet) influence over many social efforts and programs across the United States. Have you visited one recently? Rally is also a pretty tight community as well, everyone is always there to help you press on regardless, whether its a tow out of a ditch on stage or lending a spare for a blown…

What is "Rally"?

Re: The high price of mistrust

#276

Post by b0rsuk »

randompwd wrote: post #271
b0rsuk wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I trust the investigative journalist Tomasz Piątek, educated at Milan University, with awards and boks more than a rando in a HN comment.

You didn't link the video or reference the speaker. You just wrote: > One youtube talk I watched listed that as a sure sign democracy is under attack in a country. From everyone elses perspective, you are the rando in a HN comment.

Fair point. I don't remember which one exactly it was (they are 2 hour long) but it was from the series "Dochodzenie Prawdy" on the channel "Reset Obywatelski". The episode number was between 1 and 8. The talks are in Polish language only.

Re: The high price of mistrust

#277

Post by somedude895 »

jedimastert wrote: post #34

My professor once talked about a Canadian small town he worked in for a while where people where people generally left their keys in the ignition when they went to the store. I actually remember the weird feeling I got when I moved from my parents home (where we didn't lock our doors at night) to my first apartment (where I definitely did).

I remember when I lived in Barcelona and filled up my motorbike at a gas station. I went inside to pay and the lady was shocked that I left my helmet on the bike's seat for the 30 seconds I'd be away from it, and urged me to go get it lest it be snatched. Real eye-opener as well. Back in Switzerland I'd never give that another thought.

Re: The high price of mistrust

#278

Post by winrid »

kirse wrote: post #250
winrid wrote: post #111

Hopefully this isn't too much of derailing the conversation: This was something that surprised me about China when I visited, although maybe it shouldn't have. The level of community and how close people are seemed unreal, coming from the US. Maybe part of it is the "forced" community - city/urban blocks gated off with single entrance/exit ways, in some cases. I'm not sure. But the dancing every night in the street i…

The level of community and how close people are seemed unreal All of that exists in Christian churches and their deep (but often quiet) influence over many social efforts and programs across the United States. Have you visited one recently? Rally is also a pretty tight community as well, everyone is always there to help you press on regardless, whether its a tow out of a ditch on stage or lending a spare for a blown…

All very true! That's why I don't think Christianity is a terrible thing, despite not being a believer.

Regarding Rally - yeah I know - I drive stage. I've had my fellow competitors help me fix my car between stages, there is no family like the rally community.

EDIT: By the way, China has these things too. I was thinking of the things I wish we had.

Re: The high price of mistrust

#279

Post by winrid »

bollu wrote: post #275
kirse wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The level of community and how close people are seemed unreal All of that exists in Christian churches and their deep (but often quiet) influence over many social efforts and programs across the United States. Have you visited one recently? Rally is also a pretty tight community as well, everyone is always there to help you press on regardless, whether its a tow out of a ditch on stage or lending a spare for a blown…

What is "Rally"?

Stage Rally!

Re: The high price of mistrust

#280

Post by zanother001 »

bregma wrote: post #184
ndiscussion wrote: post #70

Seeing 1950's America is heartbreaking for me. I grew up in the 90s, and I never saw a trusted society. https://www.radiogunk.com/forums/index.php?threads/1950s-ame... Where's the broken glass? The needles, the poop? The stumbling drunks harassing the young women? The masses of tents where children used to play? What the fuck has happened to us?

Less censorship in the media. All that stuff was there in the 1950s as much as it is now, but you didn't see it anywhere in the media because it was not allowed by fiat of central authorities (from the Hayes office to the boardrooms of various publisher and broadcast networks). Heroin was not introduced in the 21st century and needles are not new but there are far fewer cigarette butts everywhere today. Cities stank…

> Less censorship in the media.

This is a surprising hot take in these times. I wholeheartedly disagree.

I understand what you're saying and yes I believe obviously we have more pictures/proof of existence (connected world) and yes there are a lot of areas where we have made progress but is "trust" in general better ?

I don't want to make this political but it is the elephant in the room right now. There is a whole side of a political party + media completely dismissing and grouping the whole other side in simplistic and alienating ways.

I'm not for either political side and I'm not a trump supporter. (Sadly I have to add this disclaimer, it's incredibly saddening)

I think someone else in this thread mentioned China as a high-trustful society. I think that goes to show that we're not talking about overall "better" and overall "accepting" but specifically "trust".

Maybe we find out that trust is in conflict with the other values we hold ? but to say that general trust is high now seems really naive.

I know it's an outlier but you don't need media selectiveness to show you San Fransico's homelessness problem , in fact I see more of that from word of mouth/first hand experience. I personally have seen signs of deteriorating trust in my "neighborhood". I don't want to put up strawmen but maybe it depends on how much your view is based on media vs what you see ? in which case where you live would probably have a huge impact in what your views on this are ?

I hate using that because I don't want to say that some people are too privileged to see this, imo obvious, change. As someone who was raised in a rough neighborhood (poor/high crime rate) and then moved out to a better place, I was shocked how my world view changed and I really thought the whole world had moved to a better place until I went back and realized there are still people in that "old world". It was incredibly shocking that I believed some of these things and now I'm vigilant and accepting that my world view (large part to where I live) tints the world.

I obviously don't know the solution and maybe "trust" is a value we have to lose to have some of our more progressive values or maybe it's just harder to incorporate those other values with trust.

I think it's fair to say that in the 50's communities were more trusting (for some, racism/monoculture related I'm sure). Not better but more trusting (huge emphasis on for some).

Post reply on HN