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Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

economist.com

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Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#331

Post by swebs »

thepasswordis wrote: post #285

1) Drugs are bad. The mushrooms you do at burning man every summer do not make you an expert on the effects of meth and heroin on people who are living under a bridge. 2) Placation will make it worse. Living under a bridge near other homeless people is the problem. Efforts to decriminalize "the unhoused" make the problem worse. Look at Portland, SF, Austin, and ever other city that tries this. It gets worse EVERY TIM…

>This stuff might make you feel good, but it is at the expense of the people you are exploiting for your good feelings. Stop being so selfish and accept that the solution to this problem isn'g going to be happy and fun and worthy of instagram posts.

I think a lot more people need to hear this.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#333

Post by swebs »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #317
eznzt wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Related news: European Court of Human Rights just made important ruling that decriminalizes begging. Making it criminal to be poor is against human rights. Equating begging with being poor is wrong. Bothering others is not a human right.

> Bothering others is not a human right. The ruiling doesn't mention bothering others. That was something you introduced to the conversation, just so you could dismiss it.

Roma begging in Europe is a lot more aggressive compared to the US where people usually just sit against the wall with a sign. They usually stop you from walking down the street and refuse to take no for an answer the first few times. And it repeats every single day if they set up near your work or apartment. It can also often be step 1 of a pickpocketing scam. Its not surprising that people were bothered enough to make this a law in the first place.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#334

Post by klodolph »

leetcrew wrote: post #296
klodolph wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going to dissent here—we need psychiatrists doing medication management because there are so many medications today, and so many previously untreatable conditions which are treatable with modern medications. If we switched to one-stop therapy + meds, the psychiatrist shortage would be worse.

the problem with this approach is there's not an obvious person to consult with to decide whether to start with therapy, medication, or both. I find that therapists tend to consider themselves unqualified to even suggest that their clients look into medication (or perhaps they are explicitly prohibited from doing so, idk). psychiatrists can either give you drugs or say no, but they tend to offer you something if ther…

This comes back to what I mentioned earlier in the thread that it “requires a shocking amount of initiative on the part of the patient.”

There are also easy and hard paths through the system. If you are motivated to get a diagnosis, you can talk to a psychologist or psychiatrist and get a diagnosis. You can look for a therapist who specializes in those issues. You can take this diagnosis to a psychiatrist and say “I have diagnosis X and symptoms Y.”

If you go into the hospital with a broken leg, you can just check into the hospital and you will come out with a cast and an appointment to have it removed. If you have mental health issues, unless they are severe enough to require hospitalization, you are in charge of your own treatment.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#335

Post by tomjen3 »

Cloudef wrote: post #42
agumonkey wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they prefer to get drunk instead of spending it on food and rent Some are just deep into a depression pit. I agree that some people are just weak, but most people hitting homelesness went through big losses that damages your motivation to lead a normal life. Grudge, sadness, loneliness, grief, abuse .. don't conclude too fast.

The thing is that the "home first" movement in Finland states that home isn't a trophy that you get once you fix your life. Home and food is essential to get your life on track, and home is given even for alcoholic people. But if they don't pay their rent, and even give up on social welfare to pay the rent for you, what can you do?

You can make public housing rent-free for formerly homeless and then decrease the social welfare amount.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#336

Post by decafninja »

jseliger wrote: post #68
austincheney wrote: post #7

The city of Austin, TX could be a case study of what not to do. I was remotely employed to company with offices in Austin in 2014-2015 and it was awesome to visit and walk around down town. I always had a blast. I visited Austin in 2019 and there were homeless people EVERYWHERE. Every green space and nearly every street corner seemed to be littered with homeless people. The difference crystal clear. Something in the…

Most American cities will do absolutely anything to reduce homelessness except build more housing: https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/i-will-do-anything-to-en... California cities are probably the worst offenders: https://seliger.com/2017/08/30/l-digs-hole-slowly-economics-... , but even Austin is underbuilding relative to demand.

I'm guessing it's in fear of tanking existing property values, and therefore stepping on existing property owners?

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#337

Post by rendall »

mbg721 wrote: post #139
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Western Europe there have been movements to avoid using the local equivalent of the term "gypsy", and these have seen some success. However, in the Balkan countries these movements have had little impact, even among the Roma themselves. There is a small Roma intelligentsia, university-educated and aware of those international trends, who welcomes the usage of "Roma (and Sinti)" instead of the traditional word. Amo…

In the SW US, there's also "I'm an Indian, not a 'Native American'." Euphemisms don't accomplish anything.

I was directly asked by an American Indian: "Don't call me Native American, First People or anything like that. I'm an Indian. Native American is a term invented by white people"

So, I called people Indians until a Native American said to me: "I prefer Native American. Indian is derogatory." When I asked her about what my previous friends said, she said "The people who want to be called Indian are ignorant people from the reservation who don't know any better"

I think it's just best policy to ask whatever term someone prefers to use, and use that.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#338

Post by bko »

klondike_ wrote: post #219
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #206

I'm in the US. I was homeless as a teenager (not by choice). I live adjacent to a major homeless community (not by design). My ex left our family to join the homeless community (she struggles with mh issues). I have some observations. We could sharply reduce homeless numbers here if we had in-patient mental health facilities (for non-wealthy), comprehensive housing aid and politically powerful job placement programs.…

Inpatient mental hospitals used to be in every state. They housed not only the mentally ill but also the chronically homeless and other outcasts. As the advent of antipsychotics and antidepressants reduced their population, these hospitals were an obvious target for budget cuts throughout the 80s and 90s. They money for the community health centers that were supposed to replace them never materialized, and thousands…

> As the advent of antipsychotics and antidepressants reduced their population, these hospitals were an obvious target for budget cuts throughout the 80s and 90s

Do you have a source that shows that public funding for hospitals and treatments for mental health declined during this time period?

From a quick search is seems it has risen considerably throughout the 80s to today.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/252393/total-us-expendit...

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#339

Post by thehappypm »

burlesona wrote: post #305
giantg2 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LA/Los Angeles county (what the prior link uses) is a little larger than NYC, 10 million vs 8 million respectively. I would also be interested in per capita per city. Even more so for aggregates of cold vs warm cities overall.

The most meaningful comparison is CSA: NY is 22.5M LA is 18.7M https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area

I think many people prefer the MSA definition over the CSA, CSA feels like a bit of a stretch in many of its definitions. Are San Jose and San Francisco one entity, or two? CSA says one, MSA says two.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#340

Post by anonAndOn »

bko wrote: post #338
klondike_ wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inpatient mental hospitals used to be in every state. They housed not only the mentally ill but also the chronically homeless and other outcasts. As the advent of antipsychotics and antidepressants reduced their population, these hospitals were an obvious target for budget cuts throughout the 80s and 90s. They money for the community health centers that were supposed to replace them never materialized, and thousands…

> As the advent of antipsychotics and antidepressants reduced their population, these hospitals were an obvious target for budget cuts throughout the 80s and 90s Do you have a source that shows that public funding for hospitals and treatments for mental health declined during this time period? From a quick search is seems it has risen considerably throughout the 80s to today. https://www.statista.com/statistics/25239…

Trump stomping on his predecessor's sand castle is not a new phenomenon. Patients be damned, Jimmy Carter giveth and The Gipper taketh away.[0]

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Systems_Act_of_1...

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