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Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

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Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#101

Post by freebuju »

dmitriid wrote: post #75
Hitton wrote: post #64

I'm surprised about: >Consent must also be freely given. The DPA highlighted that users should have a real choice not to consent without any negative consequences. Grindr made use of the app conditional on consenting to data sharing or to paying a subscription fee. I thought that this was allowed. Kind of puts companies depending on advertising in really bad position. One would expect that having choice of paying or…

You can advertise without bulk collection of personal data.

Yeah, but personal data is way more profitable. Hence why every popular site puts all the opt-out buttons & privacy terms behind tiny fonts placed in some hidden inconspicuous corner.

I recently stopped thinking of myself as an Internet user on the web but rather an advertising ID holder.

Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#102

Post by nulbyte »

jacquesm wrote: post #82
cblconfederate wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant that gdpr has no special provisions for LGBT

What do you think would be the chances of having an article 9 provision specifically mentioning 'sexual orientation' if everybody was straight? https://gdpr-info.eu/art-9-gdpr/

Presumeably, similar arguments could be made in each of the other classes, but none of them work. While these protections might be related to a history of discrimination, they do not apply to some more then others. They apply to everyone in the class equally.

Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#103

Post by dmitriid »

yarcob wrote: post #87
dmitriid wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are also passport checks when you fly to Norway from other EU countries. Except countries in the Nordic Passport Union: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Passport_Union You need zero documents to travel between these (well, you need a ticket if you fly or travel by train or a bus).

So I read the article, and in theory there should be no passport checks with other EU countries either because of Schengen, but apparently they have "temporary border controls" since 2015 in violation of the agreements.

Indeed.

I flew to Norway from Stockholm before 2015, and I was very surprised to just pass directly to the gate (and same on the way back).

Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#104

Post by virgilp »

matsemann wrote: post #88
Hitton wrote: post #64

I'm surprised about: >Consent must also be freely given. The DPA highlighted that users should have a real choice not to consent without any negative consequences. Grindr made use of the app conditional on consenting to data sharing or to paying a subscription fee. I thought that this was allowed. Kind of puts companies depending on advertising in really bad position. One would expect that having choice of paying or…

> I thought that this was allowed. No, that's one of the big wins of GDPR. You cannot just force the users to sign away their rights.

Yet a very large number of companies do. Open Facebook in an incognito window - it'll give you a dialog with "Accept FB cookies"; options are, "Accept all" or "Manage" (already in violation of GDPR since rejecting is not as easy as accepting!). Click manage, and you get presented with a single button, "I Accept"; sure, there's one checkbox that you can leave unchecked, but it's really unclear from that wall of text what exactly you are "Accepting" and what you're not.

If Grinder was fined 10% of revenue - why exactly aren't they fining Facebook 2.2 billion? It'd be much more impactful, and hopefully help put an end to those practices.

Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#105

Post by that_guy_iain »

hkh28 wrote: post #37
that_guy_iain wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EEA has all the laws and requirements of the EU but without representiation. So they have to follow the laws and rules but don't have a voice in the rules. I have no idea what the benefit of the EEA is for it's members other than political that they can say they're not in the EU but there must be some, maybe they don't need to pay in like EU members do?

> I have no idea what the benefit of the EEA is for it's members We have the option to reject certain EU-rules, and can negotiate special exemptions into our agreement. Norway has some exemptions in fishing rights that are central to our agreement. Under the previous government we also rejected the EU Postal Directive, though the current government has since accepted it.

The UK had those too while being a member.

Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#106

Post by virgilp »

Hitton wrote: post #99
matsemann wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I thought that this was allowed. No, that's one of the big wins of GDPR. You cannot just force the users to sign away their rights.

How is giving choice between paying with money or paying with data forcing users into signing their rights away?

Well, to make it more obvious - if users had the choice of paying with money or paying with their future voting rights, would that be "forcing users into signing their rights away?". Surely, not "forcing" since it's their choice - but, I hope we agree that it's a choice that should NOT be presented to them, at all.

You may or may not agree on whether the right to privacy should be on the same level as the right to vote, but other than that, it's really the same principle.

Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#107

Post by alpaca128 »

Vinnl wrote: post #16

> Grindr is now relying on a new consent system and alleged "legitimate interest" to use data without user consent. This is in conflict with the decision of the Norwegian DPA, as it explicitly held that "any extensive disclosure ... for marketing purposes should be based on the data subject’s consent". This "legitimate interest" shenanigans is coming up more and more often, where you have a modal with lots of options…

Once again proof that what we need is the opposite approach; companies need to actively get explicit permission not just from the end user, but also from authorities to collect and share data, and the full report should be publicly accessible. Also I wouldn't mind a general ban on using personal data for marketing purposes, I don't know a scenario where this would be necessary and beneficial for the user.

Right now companies just keep doing what they always did and hope for the best. As long as they're convinced they can just try not to get too much attention this data sharing problem will persist with barely a dent.

Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#108

Post by nulbyte »

hamilyon2 wrote: post #42

I can't help but feel this not that simple. Wording in article is odd. If data sharing was conditioned on not paying for the app use, than this could be against what this forum usually stand for. I, too, will happily pay for my data being not used and seeing no ads. Wee need more details about this case.

> I, too, will happily pay for my data being not used and seeing no ads.

These are two different things, sharing data and displaying ads. The ad industry has forgotten that you can advertise without collecting hoardes of personal data, and they've convinced the rest of us that it can't be done.

The point here is that sharing data in the way Grindr is sharing it with third parties is not core to its business. That is, no one signs up for Grindr because of that functionality. Folks sign up to Grindr to find and message others. That functionality does not require the type of data sharing being reviewed in this case, and that sharing of data is distinct from merely displaying advertising.

Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#109

Post by robin_reala »

Hitton wrote: post #99
matsemann wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I thought that this was allowed. No, that's one of the big wins of GDPR. You cannot just force the users to sign away their rights.

How is giving choice between paying with money or paying with data forcing users into signing their rights away?

Everyone (in the EU/EEA) has the right to not to have their data processed if there’s no applicable basis. So if Grindr requires money to keep their service active, then everyone should pay the same fee (leaving aside service levels) and not be forced to give up their rights. Alternatively, Grindr could come up with a business model that allows them to offer their service for free without processing their user’s un-needed personal data; an obvious first idea would be advertising targeted at gay men, but not at any one specific user.

Re: Grindr to be fined almost €10M over GDPR complaint

#110

Post by wongarsu »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #11
tyfon wrote: post #2

Note that this is 10% of revenue so it is quite substantial.

As it should be. If we only fine them fees equivalent to change found between the couch cushions, then they have no incentive to improve. Especially for private information regarding ones health and sexual activity.

Exactly. This isn't a small oversight from Grindr, they share especially sensitive information (the fact that someone is gay/Bi) without the option to opt out (nevermind that it has to be opt-in).
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