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Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

arstechnica.com

551–560 of 581 posts

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need human eye equivalents. Human eyes are probably not the ideal cameras for driving.

This may be the case, you might not have to reproduce everything. But just to give an example that is very relevant to self-driving, getting a camera with similar low-light video performance as the human eye costs over 2000$.

My dash cam cost under $200 and seems to have extremely good low light performance.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#552
post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, but Waymo uses high resolution mapping for that particular city. That does not scale.

It does not scale because Elon Musk said so? That HD mapping doesn't scale is the biggest trope in autonomous driving that I see Tesla fans repeating everywhere. Google, for example, has large scale mapping experience and their street view cars have been carrying Lidar sensors for years now. They've already mapped a bunch of cities in the US. Tesla itself uses HD maps for things like intersections, traffic lights and…

Your argument seems to make sense. If it's the case, though, why are Waymo only in a small part of Phoenix?

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#553
post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am disappointed that people remove humanity from people who are successful. We all make mistakes and any prominent figure that doesn't is presenting a facade. I'd rather see someones imperfections and know where I stand than have another generational #metoo

Common, the rest of us are not getting nearly that level of benefit of doubt. The behavior that gets excused for successful or rich people is regularly punished in normal or unsuccessful people. Both unofficially and when law is broken.

Are you trying to imply that's Elon Musk's fault, or that if others can't have it, he shouldn't either?

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#554
post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you go read the court testimony it isn’t as strange as it seems on the face. The diver started the tiff and the insult Musk sent in return was said to be common vernacular in South Africa where he grew up.

Is it also tradition in South Africa to then e-mail press to insist that it investigate the target and pay "private investigators"?

Good point, but the whole thing is a made-up excuse. "Pedo" just means pedophile in South Africa.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#555
post #427

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> It could pay off your (very expensive) Tesla in the matter of a year or two. .. while lota of people unknown to you sit with their butt in your precious expensive car. People who themselves can't (or want to) afford such a car. Not gonna happen. Nobody will throw that much money behind such an expensive gadget, being happ about their precious toy and then let complete strangers user it most of the time. Do you rent…

At that point it will be just another smart investment and not a “shiny toy”.

Ok but then you are not renting out your car that you are really normally using yourself, but are participating in a taxi scheme. That's ok, but let's be honest about it. And why stop at one car? Keep investing, soon enough you'll have 10 cars on the streets raking in money for you. Similar with Airbnb which is more a professionalized hotel business platform than renting out your place while you are on vacation.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#556
It's a long road ahead, but right now Tesla has orders of magnitudes of more real driverless miles driven, in more areas and conditions. All done safer than humans statistically. It's possible for someone else to win, but right now Waymo is certainly the underdog under any metric you could come up with EXCEPT that lidar is required in the short term. So it's makes sense that is his public stance.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#557
post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common, the rest of us are not getting nearly that level of benefit of doubt. The behavior that gets excused for successful or rich people is regularly punished in normal or unsuccessful people. Both unofficially and when law is broken.

Are you trying to imply that's Elon Musk's fault, or that if others can't have it, he shouldn't either?

I think that such level of benefit of doubt is irrational and disproportionate. It prevents people to talk and think rationally/objectively about what was said and done, because they twist logic into pretzels just to make it all feel good.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Often it says "the camera is blinded" It could very well theoretically be a software issuse.

The human driver has a number of options to adjust their “cameras” (eyes) that the Tesla doesn’t. E.g., flipping down the sun shield, adjusting head position to reduce glare, or even putting on a pair of polarized sunglasses. While there are technical solutions possible with more hardware, it’s not clear that Tesla could correct for some of these things in just software...

If these are uncommon enough, a Tesla could just stop on the side of the road and alert the driver. There will be a driver inside anyway. And there is a huge difference between "no L5, you have to keep an eye of the road every 10 seconds all the time", and "drives itself, but once every 2 hours, or in extreme weather conditions safely warns you and makes you take over and force you to drive yourself". This could very well be a great usecase, even if it won't drive itself for those 1% of cases.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#559
post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> driverless paid service Which works in one small limited area of the earth because of high-def maps, which is not what you would normally call "scalable".

At some point there was also a car company that only sold a single electrical car model, it was pretty expensive and they didn't make that many cars per year, which is not what you would normally call "scalable." Back to the original goalposts, as far as I know, Waymo is the only company that at this point, does offer a commercial service that's fully driverless. As you point out, they don't cover all of Earth, but n…

Yeah, that whole car's tech didn't rely on expensive highdef maps.

> fully driverless

Don't they have safety drivers that closely monitor through wireless connection and often take over? While it might look driverless, it is not technically. This is also another reason why it doesn't scale.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#560
post #330
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody in the autonomous car industry had produced anything yet. Tesla has the best system of those actually in use. Their arrogance is about as convincing as that of the rocket companies or car companies that didn't think EV were gone happen. Saying 'in my industry they are joke' is kind of a joke by itself by now. Also Tesla wants to operate a taxi services too so I don't understand your argument.

> Nobody in the autonomous car industry had produced anything yet. Tesla has the best system of those actually in use. Waymo is actually operating a driverless paid service in Arizona [0] with point to point pick up and drop off. Does Tesla actually offer this service today? [0] https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2021/01/04/waymo-driverless-...

Operating a incredibly limited test program while burning 100s of millions is not my definition of solving general autonomy.

Maybe if they role out this program to city after city in short intervals and have 10000+ taxi operating I would consider it.

Waymo does some things Tesla doesn't do, Tesla does things Waymo doesn't do. Tesla clearly has no interest in offering a money losing taxi service in one small city. Just as Waymo has no interest in doing all the work to figure out the meaning of obscure signs on roads in China.

The question is, when can I click on an app, get a car and drive basically anywhere. That is 'the solution'.

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