Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

cbc.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

621–630 of 839 posts

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#621

Post by smt88 »

emmelaich wrote: post #617

It used to be the case that accusations of voting machine related fraud came habitually and often from the left[0]. I wish we had open-source, publicly reviewed voting machines.. Diebold used to be the bête-noire of computer security people. Not particularly relevant but Dominion inherited Diebold with one of their acquisitions. 0. https://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006...

The accusations in the article you linked are fact-based and mostly related to security. They're not comparable to the lunacy people are inventing about Dominion.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#622

Post by matthewbauer »

perl4ever wrote: post #616
flerchin wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have paper trails for every vote.

I believe you are both mistaken. From what I've read, there are some states/localities that have paper ballots they can check, including swing states like Georgia, where they did audit that exact thing. But then there are other states that do not keep the paper trail, most of which went "red" according to an article I read but did not verify.

A few states are using direct recording systems, without a paper trail:

https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_methods_and_equipment_by_stat...

"Currently only one state — Louisiana — keeps no paper trail of votes at all. Counties in eight states — Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Mississippi, New Jersey, Oklahoma, Tennessee and Texas — use a hybrid system" where some, but not all votes will have a paper trail.

(from https://madison.com/on-paper-ballots-for-the-2020-election/a...)

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#623

Post by crmrc114 »

I honestly was only following this a little but when Giuliani told me to buy his cigars with RUDY20 or some such nonsense during a video that was supposed to be about election fraud I just nope'd right out. Like, yeah if this is that important to you I would hope you would know not to cheapen the entire message as a paid advert for some no-name cigar company.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#624

Post by perl4ever »

pdonis wrote: post #295
jonas21 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the thing about Dominion -- their machines do generate a paper trail, and this paper trail was audited. One of the big pushes to secure this election compared to previous ones was to use as many voting machines with auditable paper trails as possible.

> their machines do generate a paper trail Not the same kind of paper trail that exists when a voter fills out a paper ballot. If I fill out a paper ballot, that ballot is independent evidence of the votes I intended to cast, because I filled it out directly, with no machine in the middle. So that paper ballot is a useful auditing mechanism for checking on machine-generated vote counts. If I electronically cast votes…

In NY, you do fill out a paper ballot, it's scanned, done. I assume they keep the ballots in case they need to count them...

I was curious who makes the voting machines that are used here. It's apparently a company called ES&S:

"Election Systems and Software (ES&S) 11208 John Galt Blvd, Omaha NE"

https://www.essvote.com/

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#625

Post by qwerty12345678 »

apsec112 wrote: post #550
qwerty12345678 wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious Question: Why is everyone assuming they're lying? And why doesn't anyone want to prove Biden won? From my perspective, the accusations he made were completely dodged by Dominion and by Democrats (since their guy was labeled the winner by the media). I'm not aware of any individual claim that was debunked via substantiating evidence. They refused to answer, refused to report it in the media, and ran full speed…

The complaint by Dominion very thoroughly refutes all the accusations here, and shows convincingly that they knew they were lying. It's 107 pages and has a total of 235 footnotes: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20463212/rudy.pdf

Thanks, I'll review. The last "refute" I read in response to the technical report from Allied Security Operations Group[1] was ridiculous and contained no debunking evidence, so I sincerely hope this one is better.

[1] https://depernolaw.com/uploads/2/7/0/2/27029178/antrim_michi...

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#626

Post by joering2 »

andy_ppp wrote: post #475
akiselev wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but "they should have known" doesn't follow from how they market themselves as a business unless it's a licensed profession. It's not uncommon for defendants to completely contradict their previous public statements under threat of a lawsuit like all the Fox News lawsuits where their lawyers win by claiming that it's an entertainment channel and their viewers should know better [1]. Beyond that, one can easily…

You are kidding me, their defence in court is that they are bullshit artists, it’s just beyond parody. I’m starting to think we live in something far worse than idiocracy... Dominion at the very least should be demanding they remove the word “news” from all their branding if this is to fly.

Fox Noise is a joke. Mostly they are being watched so much because people find them entertaining. But they are danger to society and democracy. The lies they spew are the reason they been banned both from Murdoch home Australia, and Great Britain. I find it especially funny to watch Sean Insanity, Fucker Calrson, Lara Inbreed and Mark Lenin; they all just opinion-makers, its just happen to be extremely shitty but funny opinion.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#627

Post by perl4ever »

pdonis wrote: post #295
jonas21 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the thing about Dominion -- their machines do generate a paper trail, and this paper trail was audited. One of the big pushes to secure this election compared to previous ones was to use as many voting machines with auditable paper trails as possible.

> their machines do generate a paper trail Not the same kind of paper trail that exists when a voter fills out a paper ballot. If I fill out a paper ballot, that ballot is independent evidence of the votes I intended to cast, because I filled it out directly, with no machine in the middle. So that paper ballot is a useful auditing mechanism for checking on machine-generated vote counts. If I electronically cast votes…

>unless I, the voter, leave some record that I inspected that piece of paper and agree that it reflects the votes I intended to cast, it's useless as an auditing mechanism

If the voter can easily see that the ballot reflects their choices, then it's not useless as an auditing mechanism. That's hyperbole.

Remember, if there is massive/systematic fraud going on, then every instance doesn't have to be caught to uncover it.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#628

Post by xxpor »

qwerty12345678 wrote: post #546
wcunning wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As to (3), Ken and others have also pointed out, Rudy or Sydney Powel being lawyers have a duty to know this sort of thing so there's a chance that they'll be found to have actual malice even without a finding that Rudy was knowingly lying.

Serious Question: Why is everyone assuming they're lying? And why doesn't anyone want to prove Biden won? From my perspective, the accusations he made were completely dodged by Dominion and by Democrats (since their guy was labeled the winner by the media). I'm not aware of any individual claim that was debunked via substantiating evidence. They refused to answer, refused to report it in the media, and ran full speed…

Good thing truth is an absolute defense to defamation, and Rudy will have plenty of opportunities to prove it in court.

Hint: he won't

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#629

Post by dangoor »

chrisco255 wrote: post #469

I think it's nuts for a modern democracy to allow for anything but open source software being used to count paper ballots with chain-of-custody records, voter ID validation, biometric markings, and redacted ballots being published on the web for all to view and count independently. Software systems can easily be hacked, and it isn't easy to inspect and tell. A vote is a one time, one sided transaction. It's not as ea…

They need only do [risk-limiting audits](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk-limiting_audit) (which some states did do!) to verify the results.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#630

Post by pdonis »

CydeWeys wrote: post #575
djrogers wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel so disconnected from this process here in California - I haven't been asked for ID to vote ever . AFAIK, we're not allowed to verify ID here...

It's a good thing not doing it. ID verification disenfranchises way more people than fraudulent votes prevented.

> ID verification disenfranchises

How so? How many eligible voters don't already have government issued IDs?

Post reply on HN