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Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

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Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#581

Post by detaro »

throwaway12992 wrote: post #576
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is that Republicanism has become a bit of a religion: public policy positions have been increasingly replaced with incoherent dogma. Republicans have been claiming for years, completely without merit, that Dominion has been involved in a variety of vote-changing schemes. It is highly doubtful that Giuliani ever even checked to determine where Dominion's machines were even being used before he star…

Republicans have been claiming for years, completely without merit, that Dominion has been involved in a variety of vote-changing schemes Just Republicans? https://thefederalist.com/2016/10/19/8-times-liberals-claime...

Which of the examples in your list alleges that "Dominion has been involved in a [...] vote-changing scheme"?

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#582

Post by oyvey_goyim »

wlesieutre wrote: post #399
unanswered wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I've seen that. It corroborates exactly what Giuliani was saying: the decision was made to bar observers and media from the room from the night, and the decision was made to nonetheless continue vote counting activities in their absence. That's the whole problem. The only thing the statement adds is that they investigated themselves and found they did nothing wrong. That is not the same thing as having observers…

I must have missed the part of the video where media and observers were barred from the room, rather than simply having left. Could you give me a timestamp? With the whole thing being on camera and knowing that no secret ballot suitcases were smuggled in, are we to believe that in the absence of observers they somehow rigged the counting machines to mis-scan these ballots, even though the hand recount for Fulton only…

No post body was provided.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#583

Post by throwawaygh »

jariel wrote: post #566
tshaddox wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that it's not totally clear whether Giuliani believed any of his crazy-talk. It may actually be the case that Giuliani is just off his rocker. If he himself was sold by the (false) facts he received from others, he is a more difficult defamation target. That part seems bizarre. Surely he ought to still be culpable is he said false things with the intention to damage Dominion, even if he can convince…

This is such an interesting point that it really throws the era of 'fake news' a judicial curveball. The same question came up with Trump's phone calls to the Georgia AG when the President was essentially threatening the AG to 'do something'. There is apparently a lot of materiality to the notion of how much the President actually believed the issue of fraud. Which is an altogether amazing new line of defence: "If yo…

This line of defense -- in both law and politics -- needs to end. Truth precedes morality, not the other way around. Our laws should recognize this.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#584

Post by adolph »

apsec112 wrote: post #550
qwerty12345678 wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious Question: Why is everyone assuming they're lying? And why doesn't anyone want to prove Biden won? From my perspective, the accusations he made were completely dodged by Dominion and by Democrats (since their guy was labeled the winner by the media). I'm not aware of any individual claim that was debunked via substantiating evidence. They refused to answer, refused to report it in the media, and ran full speed…

The complaint by Dominion very thoroughly refutes all the accusations here, and shows convincingly that they knew they were lying. It's 107 pages and has a total of 235 footnotes: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20463212/rudy.pdf

IANAL, but that complaint reads weirdly. Most often these things are deadly dull and the facts are slowly laid out with evidence in the footnotes but that filing doesn’t play to type. I make no claim if that is right or wrong, just oddly spicy.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#585

Post by pfdietz »

jariel wrote: post #561
qwerty12345678 wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious Question: Why is everyone assuming they're lying? And why doesn't anyone want to prove Biden won? From my perspective, the accusations he made were completely dodged by Dominion and by Democrats (since their guy was labeled the winner by the media). I'm not aware of any individual claim that was debunked via substantiating evidence. They refused to answer, refused to report it in the media, and ran full speed…

"And why doesn't anyone want to prove Biden won?" There's an election process with many layers of oversight, that's the 'proof'. Just because there are what might appear to be opaque elements to us plebes, doesn't mean there is any material lack of integrity. Most tellingly: Giuliani himself did not argue fraud in court - because he could be disbarred for introducing garbage in that process. If the Giuliani/Trump cas…

> Giuliani himself did not argue fraud in court

And that is Dominion's strongest evidence for actual malice on the part of Giuliani.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#586

Post by UShouldBWorking »

andy_ppp wrote: post #475
akiselev wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but "they should have known" doesn't follow from how they market themselves as a business unless it's a licensed profession. It's not uncommon for defendants to completely contradict their previous public statements under threat of a lawsuit like all the Fox News lawsuits where their lawyers win by claiming that it's an entertainment channel and their viewers should know better [1]. Beyond that, one can easily…

You are kidding me, their defence in court is that they are bullshit artists, it’s just beyond parody. I’m starting to think we live in something far worse than idiocracy... Dominion at the very least should be demanding they remove the word “news” from all their branding if this is to fly.

[dead]

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#587

Post by bena »

yters wrote: post #303
yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

Ironically, a previous version of this company known as Diebold was used in the 2004 election, and Democrats claimed the electronic voting machines were used to commit voter fraud. Apparently, one could open up the vote ledger in MS Access and modify the votes without any kind of audit trail or password. Hopefully after the multiple rebrandings Dominion has gotten its security under better control :D See the leaked m…

Diebold is not a previous version of Dominion.

Dominion acquired all of the material assets of Premier, which was a renamed Diebold, from ES&S due to an anti-trust lawsuit.

Now, ES&S has issues, but you're not going to hear anything about that. Because ES&S machines are used in places like Kentucky, South Carolina, and Florida.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#588

Post by qwerty12345678 »

RHSeeger wrote: post #560
qwerty12345678 wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious Question: Why is everyone assuming they're lying? And why doesn't anyone want to prove Biden won? From my perspective, the accusations he made were completely dodged by Dominion and by Democrats (since their guy was labeled the winner by the media). I'm not aware of any individual claim that was debunked via substantiating evidence. They refused to answer, refused to report it in the media, and ran full speed…

As a general rule of thumb, if you make an extraordinary claim, the burden lies on your to provide proof if you want to be believed. Claiming that there was widespread election fraud, including by the companies making some of the devices, is an extraordinary claim. It doesn't appear there's been any proof provided to back up those extraordinary claims. As such, they can, and should, be ignored.

You're referring to Hitchens's Razor, which I believe is a flawed mindset that's used selectively as it suits people. The situation here is that the proof is very well hidden, and therefore the situation has been rendered un-falsifiable. This is now essentially a Russell's Teapot[1] statement.

I'd say when people start storming the US Capitol, it's time to stop ignoring the underlying issue. Why are you so afraid of confirming the facts via evidence? I think the clear answer is that you're afraid it might not be what you want to hear.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#589

Post by dodobirdlord »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #495
antiterra wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think their argument was particularly strong, and even if it was, disenfranchising 6 million voters who voted in good faith per their individual US Constitutional right would never be a sensical remedy for an error in procedure by officials.

> I don’t think their argument was particularly strong The lower court seemed to indicate they were going to win on it before it was dismissed on procedure. > disenfranchising 6 million voters who voted in good faith per their individual US Constitutional right would never be a sensical remedy for an error in procedure by officials. The problem is that once the election has been conducted in violation of the law, tha…

The decision itself is worth reading. It is not reflective of your characterization, either on the merits or on the appropriateness of the proposed remedy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/read-the-opinion-fede...

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#590

Post by throwawaygh »

javagram wrote: post #447
dstola wrote: post #376

Instead of filing massive law suits, why doesn't Dominion attempt to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that the machines were _not_ biased with technical evidence. I feel that open sourcing their code would definitely do the trick. It is kinda baffling that something as important as an election is ran on closed-source proprietary codebase.

> Instead of filing massive law suits, why doesn't Dominion attempt to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that the machines were _not_ biased with technical evidence. Why would their code matter? Far more important than the code is the paper ballot audit trail their machines produce. And that audit trail has been audited by multiple states, run by both Republicans and Democrats, after the election and found to be fl…

> Why would their code matter? Far more important than the code is the paper ballot audit trail their machines produce.

Thank you!!! There are tons of people who have spent their entire lives thinking about computer voting. Their recommendations are almost uniformly:

1. Dear god no.

2. If so, paper trail.

Looking at the source code when there's an auditable paper trail is a huge idiotic red herring. And, there is an auditable paper trail.

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