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Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

economist.com

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Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#271

Post by zdragnar »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #206

I'm in the US. I was homeless as a teenager (not by choice). I live adjacent to a major homeless community (not by design). My ex left our family to join the homeless community (she struggles with mh issues). I have some observations. We could sharply reduce homeless numbers here if we had in-patient mental health facilities (for non-wealthy), comprehensive housing aid and politically powerful job placement programs.…

An ex of mine worked with the homeless through a training program attached to a shelter. Maybe 2 or 3 out of 10 took the training seriously and were stable enough to actually put it to any use. The rest were just there for free bus passes and meals, or were too unstable to hold even an unskilled job for a month.

The hardest part was that those who needed help the most could have gotten it through the program, but were so untrusting of seeing a doctor that they flat out refused- most thought they would be locked up in a ward or some similar conspiracy fear.

Winter around here is no joke, and it is hard to see them and not want to help, but the truth is that the visibly homeless don't want it enough to change. The invisible homeless- the people who don't look like a living stereotype- usually make it out because they still have hope.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#272

Post by jariel »

offtop5 wrote: post #244
jariel wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are generally accepted to be 2 categories - those that fall out temporarily and the long term homeless. Your situation is more the former. It's really common and that's what basic safety nets are for. The longer term folks - serious drug addiction, mental illness, excessive abuse etc. etc. - those are the harder cases.

>Your situation is more the former. It's really common and that's what basic safety nets are for. Like a 10 year Section 8 waiting list ? Sorry for the snark, but no social safety net really exist in America. If you don't have a place to go, you don't have it. In many states if you don't have kids you can't get effective aid. And even with you can still end up sleeping in a car .

Oh yes, sure I don't doubt there isn't much there in the US. But certainly in Finland, Europe etc. there is.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#273

Post by Guthur »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #175
teekert wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty much the same in the Netherlands, given enough issues and after failing to get you back to work you basically land in a situation where the state pays for your existence though direct money and a lot of subsidies (ie when the stress of work cause a relapse in your drinking habits and it happened time and time again over the past 10 years). It is thus very difficult to understand why there are homeless peo…

Exactly, it's not a choice. Also, I think the current method of making alcohol really expensive through levies is not working. It only makes homeless addicted people poorer and more likely to turn to crime. The rest of us don't give a shit how much it costs, we don't use much of it anyway. The price is never a factor in getting addicted or getting off it. All it is is the government profiteering of people who can't h…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK7l55ZOVIc

But no one likes the alternative, which is to say there is no more alcohol, because it's just another human being saying you can't have more of this that you crave.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#274

Post by worik »

stevecalifornia wrote: post #238
klondike_ wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inpatient mental hospitals used to be in every state. They housed not only the mentally ill but also the chronically homeless and other outcasts. As the advent of antipsychotics and antidepressants reduced their population, these hospitals were an obvious target for budget cuts throughout the 80s and 90s. They money for the community health centers that were supposed to replace them never materialized, and thousands…

I would add that you are missing a major component for why mental hospitals went away-- public opinion changed. The public was made aware of abuses and such abuses were also dramatized in One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest. There was pressure to shut these down. Separately, I will add that we need these hospitals back desperately. I don't know who will sign up for this tough job, but we need a place for the mentally ill…

True.

The abuses are worse now, distributed rather than institutional, which makes the abuse harder to combat and easier to ignore.

I am not in the USA, and we have a significant problem too.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#275

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

crb002 wrote: post #270
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #206

I'm in the US. I was homeless as a teenager (not by choice). I live adjacent to a major homeless community (not by design). My ex left our family to join the homeless community (she struggles with mh issues). I have some observations. We could sharply reduce homeless numbers here if we had in-patient mental health facilities (for non-wealthy), comprehensive housing aid and politically powerful job placement programs.…

I was taken political prisoner three times in the Broadlawns facility ran by Polk County Iowa - currently helping Federal Medicaid claw back the fraudulent $20k hospital bill. Lynchpins of the rampant political corruption is nepotism between Chief Justice Susan Larson Christensen/ brother 4th District Chief Judge Jeff Larson and Hon Mary Tabor/brother Chief Deputy Attorney General Eric Tabor. What you speak of does e…

> What you speak of does exist, it's Medicaid

I can't say that in-patient mental health care (for non-wealthy) is available nowhere in the US. But it is scarce enough that you may have the only example.

I am excluding 72hour-hold facilities because they are more like an extended Dr.s visit, than any sort of rehabilitation.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#276

Post by w_t_payne »

The truth is that human beings need a huge amount of investment - time, money and love - to get us to the point where we can function effectively - and once we fall off the train, it can be nearly impossible to climb back on again.

Human misery is a systems problem.

Perhaps the most productive way of tackling it will be to bolster and expand the mechanisms which enable people to avoid poverty and homelessness. E.g. helping a recently-redundant person quickly find another job, or giving someone at risk of becoming homeless another three or four months of breathing room so they have a chance to turn things around.

It's not just about financial support, either. Social, emotional and psychological support is essential, as it's so incredibly hard to keep a clear head when you are in distress.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#277

Post by jlokier »

vkou wrote: post #191
barbacoa wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was always a homeless population but they would stay in shelters or camp deep in the woods and keep to themselves. Now homeless are leaving the shelters and choosing to live in the streets. since 2019 (when the camping ordinance was passed): * homelessness has increased 11% * Un-sheltered homelessness is up 45% * Numbers in shelters and transitional housing is down 20% https://www.statesman.com/news/20200519/au…

Why do you think homeless people are choosing to sleep rough, rather than stay in shelters?

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25903468 for another good reason.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#278

Post by manfredo »

offtop5 wrote: post #265
shuckles wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California, you have: Social Security, re-entry services provided by the CCDR, EBT, Medicaid, cash through county assistance programs, and a large number of non profit providers of aid.

Then why does California have so many homeless ?

Popular answers: Good weather and high housing costs.

Less popular answers: Extensive services for homeless serves as a magnet to homeless. Greater benefits for the homeless incentivizes homeless across the nation to move there.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#280

Post by DenisM »

zdragnar wrote: post #271
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #206

I'm in the US. I was homeless as a teenager (not by choice). I live adjacent to a major homeless community (not by design). My ex left our family to join the homeless community (she struggles with mh issues). I have some observations. We could sharply reduce homeless numbers here if we had in-patient mental health facilities (for non-wealthy), comprehensive housing aid and politically powerful job placement programs.…

An ex of mine worked with the homeless through a training program attached to a shelter. Maybe 2 or 3 out of 10 took the training seriously and were stable enough to actually put it to any use. The rest were just there for free bus passes and meals, or were too unstable to hold even an unskilled job for a month. The hardest part was that those who needed help the most could have gotten it through the program, but wer…

People who are seriously helped by the program will not return, but those who were not helped will come back. Over the long run the program will be full of people who cannot be helped and a small number who will do well. So seeing 2 out of 10 doing well does not shed light on the program's success.
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