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Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

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Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#481

Post by javagram »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #190
CydeWeys wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing hand counting can be (and is) used with the Dominion voting machines to verify the electronic result, then.

Certainly a good thing! Do let me temper that slightly : Some states didn't or didn't fully have a paper trail quite yet https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_methods_and_equipment_by_stat... Also, be aware that Dominion voting systems actually acquired the old "Diebold Election Systems", who were not so secure a couple of years back. (though things may have changed by now, of course) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_E…

Note that it looks like the states on that list that have “DREs without VVPAT” (electronic machines without a paper trail) are Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, New Jersey, Tennessee, and Texas on that list, along with some DREs without VVPAT in Kansas and Mississippi.

Since Trump won 7/8 of those states, a conspiracy theorist might suggest that Trump’s team successfully hacked the electronic machines in those states that have no paper trail.

However, there’s really very little reason to believe there was fraud in this election - but those republican states (and New Jersey) should replace their DREs without VVPAT by the next election so that they have a secure paper trail for auditing.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#483

Post by wvenable »

jamiesonbecker wrote: post #465
wvenable wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see no reason to provide additional support for threads with limited value to the HN community. If you want to discuss politics or general news there are plenty of sites for that.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but this entire posting is literally a discussion of politics/general news. The tone of "I see no reason.. limited value" seems a bit condescending to what appears to be a sizable portion of HN that values intelligent debate, and there can be no debate with only one viewpoint.

I'd have flagged it already but "voting machines" is vaguely tech related and it's still here.

It appears you only care what a sizable portion of HN wants up to a point as they are the one's upvoting and downvoting the comments.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#484

Post by AnimalMuppet »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #449
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most significant cases were dismissed on procedural issues without reaching the merits. That doesn't necessarily mean they had merit, but arbitrarily many procedural dismissals don't show that one way or the other. I feel like this is the problem with the discourse right now. It's understandable why you're making that argument, because the media has been saying that for months now. Because in fact a large number…

The counterargument has been heard. There are only so many times you can audit an election before you give up because the facts are not the point: there are plenty of people in the US who saw Trump as a savior because he's a mean spirited asshole who is afraid of a majority-minority country, and so they cannot comprehend how someone who was so popular to so many would have lost an election by such a large margin. The…

Laches isn't a "punt". Laches is, the courts don't like being used as a machine for your lawsuit to hold the public hostage. You don't get to see grounds for suing, do nothing, then once the results of the lawsuit will do maximum damage to the public, then sue. The courts are not interested in letting you use them for, essentially, blackmail.

If you knew months before the election that the rules were being changed, why not file a lawsuit then? Why wait until after the election, when you've got the deadline of the Electoral College vote, and your lawsuit is going to literally disenfranchise every voter in the state?

Laches isn't a punt. It's sanity in the face of insane lawsuits trying to game the court system.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#485

Post by lawnchair_larry »

simonh wrote: post #321
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the court rules that the statements were false, but Giuliani is off his rocker and so Dominion doesn't get their billion, Dominion might still find that an acceptable outcome. They need their reputation at least as much as they need the money; a court ruling that the claims were factually wrong would go a long way toward restoring their reputation.

All the claims if significant vote fraud were thrown out by courts up and down the land, including the Supreme Court and yet still a huge mob of nutters stormed the Capitol. A mere court finding isn’t going to stop Dominion employees getting death threats. It needs to be clearly and forcefully demonstrated that knowingly and recklessly and maliciously lying to the public with the intention of causing harm to a compan…

> All the claims if significant vote fraud were thrown out by courts up and down the land, including the Supreme Court

I don’t believe that is true. As far as I know, there weren’t really any claims of voter fraud from Trump’s legal team.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#486

Post by javagram »

throwaway31831 wrote: post #468
javagram wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you talking about mail-in ballots in a thread about Dominion Voting Systems? Mail-in ballots work the same way they have since 1864. You fill out a paper ballot and mail it back. > Biden only won 16% of counties. Only a few key counties need to be targeted to flip a national election. 16% of counties - when more than half the US population lives in just 4.6% of the counties. Remember that many counties are ne…

> Why are you talking about mail-in ballots in a thread about Dominion Voting Systems? Mail-in ballots get counted by machines.

The machine count of mail-in ballots is checked by a hand count audit. For instance, in Georgia every ballot was recounted by humans to confirm the accuracy of the machine count.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#487

Post by [deleted] »

xerxespoy wrote: post #373

Be great for threads like these if HN had both: 1) A block function so we could cut the massively-upvoted, one-sided comments and get to the impartial or contrary information buried underneath them. 2) A "unfade" button to see the massively-downvoted comments. I've generally found when threads take on this imbalanced and highly-polarised state, the stuff on the top isn't the cream.

[deleted]

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#488

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

jliptzin wrote: post #400
um_ya wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The court system moves slower than the news. Many of these lawsuits are still ongoing. Simply stating "they were discredited" doesn't make the evidence presented less true. If you look at what is presented, you'll find much of it is quite compelling.

Can’t possibly be the case that a President who never won the popular vote and never polled above 50% approval during his entire term lost an election in which almost every poll leading up to it predicted his loss.

I'd love to see these so called patriots champion installing Gore for a bonus term since he was actually shafted by a mismanaged election. Nobody went looney bin insane over that.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#489

Post by colinmhayes »

jamiesonbecker wrote: post #472
striking wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can collapse threads you no longer intend to read.

> You can collapse threads you no longer intend to read. True, but only if there's more than one thread on the page.

Just go to the next page?

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#490

Post by wlesieutre »

purchaceallsus wrote: post #411
wlesieutre wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ballots were on camera in the room the entire time, if reporters had been sent home they still wouldn't have appeared out of a mystery suitcase. They were sealed on camera, then unsealed on camera, and counted on camera. They have been counted and recounted and recounted. I don't know if reporters were "sent home" as you are claiming, or if they "left" as described by this video when election employees were initi…

Thank you for your reply. >The ballots were on camera in the room the entire time, if reporters had been sent home they still wouldn't have appeared out of a mystery suitcase. They were sealed on camera, then unsealed on camera, and counted on camera. They have been counted and recounted and recounted. Here are the sworn affidavits that state the observers were too far to monitor what was being done with the boxes wh…

I don’t have anything to add on monitoring distance, but both of the affidavits you linked specifically agree with the video that they left and not that they were kicked out, because everyone thought counting was finished for the night. Neither of them claims they wouldn’t have been allowed to stay if they had stayed until the room was empty.

What the state investigator says, and what those affidavits both appear to agree with, is

> Nobody told them to stay. Nobody told them to leave. Nobody gave them any advice on what they should do. And It was still open for them or the public to come back in to view at whatever time they wanted to, as long as they were still working.

I’m going to give more credence to the affidavits of the people who were directly involved over the wording from ABC.

One of them did return later and was allowed in, but arrived as the counting was complete.

It’s an unfortunate situation that everyone was told it was closing down and then the secretary of state’s office called to tell them to keep counting, but that doesn’t support Giuliano’s claims about rigging the election with suitcases of ballots from under a table.

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