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Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

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Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#391

Post by halfmatthalfcat »

dstola wrote: post #376

Instead of filing massive law suits, why doesn't Dominion attempt to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that the machines were _not_ biased with technical evidence. I feel that open sourcing their code would definitely do the trick. It is kinda baffling that something as important as an election is ran on closed-source proprietary codebase.

The precedent this would set would be disastrous. Any bad actor could try to force a company to release IP to prove they aren't acting maliciously. We have the legal discovery process for a reason.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#392

Post by guilhas »

sdenton4 wrote: post #280

Seeing lots of throw-away accounts popping in to drop misinformation... At least five, by my quick count? Seems like it would be helpful to disable commenting for new-user/low-karma accounts for certain threads.

Opposing political views are badly taken on HN, so many people might create extra accounts to comment political posts?

There is enough affidavits, and statistical anomalies to warrant an investigation. And until there is one, anyone is free to claim voter fraud. But nonetheless all comments claiming fraud to be tangentially possible are getting destroyed. Even though the media has been bragging how easy is to hack a voting machine after Trump 2016 win. After 20 million for "Russia collusion" which was badly founded, and resulted in not much, is there nothing to investigate this election? Or would it be too embarrassing?

Until there is an investigation, there is no "misinformation", people should be free to express doubt, and support allegations of voter fraud.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#393

Post by david927 »

jansan wrote: post #360
david927 wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a John Oliver special from a year ago that will terrify you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svEuG_ekNT0

John Oliver should not be used for anything other than entertainment.

Argue the points, not the person.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#394

Post by knowaveragejoe »

tptacek wrote: post #365
um_ya wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is still meaningful court cases going on, in relation to this election. If you're curious to see all the evidence Giuliani and other lawsuits brought forward, here's a compilation of the evidence brought forward, sorted by significance: https://airtable.com/shrhYBx2cboqsKv14/tbl0at4AkLpdBFOzp?bac...

Is the idea here that by putting assertions that were discredited and that failed in court cases heard by Republican and, in some cases, Trump-appointed judges in Airtable, they somehow gain credibility? I think the funniest part of this is that there are columns here that contain "[number] [sentence]" formats, as if the person who built it doesn't quite get the idea of a spreadsheet.

> Is the idea here that by putting assertions that were discredited and that failed in court cases heard by Republican and, in some cases, Trump-appointed judges in Airtable, they somehow gain credibility?

Yes. This is airtable is used on a number of websites that claim to show Biden cheated. It's a form of gish galloping - look closer at any of these, there's a reason why no court seriously entertained them. But when presented with so many items, it seems like there is something to it(of course, there's not).

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#395

Post by rrook »

lettergram wrote: post #390
tptacek wrote: post #134

Ken White has been talking about the potential for this suit for a couple weeks now. He spends a lot of time talking about what isn't defamation --- people use defamation suits and threats thereof to chill free speech, and he's a 1st Amendment guy --- but the Dominion cases are apparently examples of very serious defamation cases. The core of defamation is (1) a false statement of purported fact that (2) causes damag…

There have been audits showing inconsistencies in the dominion systems in Michigan. https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20423772-antrim-cou... In addition they have videos of dominion employees supposedly explaining how to flip votes. https://thespectator.info/2021/01/04/new-video-shows-dominio... If you watched the state senate hearings you can see these. Witnesses share their findings. As far as I’m aware Giul…

> Frankly, I’ve seen the evidence Guiliani has presented and I find it convincing

Care to share?

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#396

Post by astrange »

tunesmith wrote: post #239
CydeWeys wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dominion voting machines leave an auditable paper trail and thus do support hand-counting of paper ballots, which was done as part of the recounts in disputed states. No discrepancies beyond the margin of error of hand counting were found in those recounts vs the electronically reported results. You can see how they work in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9BDiO3JGTs

Still not sufficient though, you only need to hack enough to get outside the automatic recount margin. You also need hand-recount of random samples in all elections.

You only need to recount heavily when the election is near 50%, because the higher the margin of victory, the fewer random samples you need to detect fraud. This is what Georgia actually does. The automatic margin is for runoff elections.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#397

Post by sv123 »

dstola wrote: post #376

Instead of filing massive law suits, why doesn't Dominion attempt to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that the machines were _not_ biased with technical evidence. I feel that open sourcing their code would definitely do the trick. It is kinda baffling that something as important as an election is ran on closed-source proprietary codebase.

Because you can't prove a negative?

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#398

Post by yielding »

pedrocr wrote: post #388
pupdogg wrote: post #111

The article states that at one point in time, at a voluntary hearing in Michigan, Dominion CEO said "It is technologically impossible to see votes being counted in real-time or to flip them". I think that everybody here is fairly technically inclined so what are your guys thoughts on this? My personal opinion is that using the term "technologically impossible" in this instance was not a good idea. If @antirez is read…

Calling it impossible to flip votes is quite silly. You can just pre-program the machine to pick a candidate randomly every few votes and you skew the election. Do it after the first few votes to give you a distribution so as to only do it between the major candidates and not inflate any marginal runners. Do it only on machines in locations that vote against your preferred candidate and you skew to your candidate. If…

Dominion machines print a ballot, which the voter takes — and as such, can see the vote — and deposits for counting separately. The final vote tally can be from the machines, but there’s always the paper ballots available to count — which is what a recount is: a manual count of the ballots. The machines simplify the process but they don’t change it.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#399

Post by wlesieutre »

unanswered wrote: post #367
wlesieutre wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I haven't seen any attempted defense of it yet Ok but did you look? https://www.wsbtv.com/news/politics/georgia-election-officia...

Yes, I've seen that. It corroborates exactly what Giuliani was saying: the decision was made to bar observers and media from the room from the night, and the decision was made to nonetheless continue vote counting activities in their absence. That's the whole problem. The only thing the statement adds is that they investigated themselves and found they did nothing wrong. That is not the same thing as having observers…

I must have missed the part of the video where media and observers were barred from the room, rather than simply having left. Could you give me a timestamp?

With the whole thing being on camera and knowing that no secret ballot suitcases were smuggled in, are we to believe that in the absence of observers they somehow rigged the counting machines to mis-scan these ballots, even though the hand recount for Fulton only differed from the initial count by 0.07%?

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#400

Post by jliptzin »

um_ya wrote: post #369
tptacek wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the idea here that by putting assertions that were discredited and that failed in court cases heard by Republican and, in some cases, Trump-appointed judges in Airtable, they somehow gain credibility? I think the funniest part of this is that there are columns here that contain "[number] [sentence]" formats, as if the person who built it doesn't quite get the idea of a spreadsheet.

The court system moves slower than the news. Many of these lawsuits are still ongoing. Simply stating "they were discredited" doesn't make the evidence presented less true. If you look at what is presented, you'll find much of it is quite compelling.

Can’t possibly be the case that a President who never won the popular vote and never polled above 50% approval during his entire term lost an election in which almost every poll leading up to it predicted his loss.
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