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The nihilism of r/wallstreetbets

jeromysonne.com

41–50 of 277 posts

Re: The nihilism of r/wallstreetbets

#41
post #13

uh, there's way too much analysis here lol. at it's core it's a fun distraction and people are gamblers. it's no different than fantasy football or going to your local casino. there's a big subset there that is obviously cash strapped and desperate. there are also people there with 6-7 figure net worths that are just passing the time. the DD is actually "okay" once you cut thru the lingo and I'd be willing to bet mos…

There's a lot of analysis to do on people at a casino as well, and I expect there's actually a significant demographic difference between them and r/wsb. Fantasy sports probably has a closer profile. And there is a LOT of money to be made analysing why people who like gambling do one type or another.

Re: The nihilism of r/wallstreetbets

#42
post #8

I don't know anything about WSB, but how does: > It’s a bunch of autistic losers that live in their mom’s basement who are gambling what little money they have to try and become rich to live lifestyles of hedonism square with "These people were involved in very meaningfully moving a stock price around" ?

If you read like one line further, > On the surface, it seems really weird but it’s mostly a type of gallows humor that permeates a lot of especially young millennials and zennial men. It is a humorous constructed setting that is not necessarily reality. As an aside, I'd never seen the phrase "gallows humor" to describe this sort of ?? post-irony.

That line - which I read - doesn't really negate the previous one. And if you keep reading the article mentions a lot of debt and not being able to get ahead and the like. But clearly, there's some money sloshing around there. Is it just a ton of people with a little bit? A few that have a lot? Maybe it doesn't take that much to move one kind of crappy stock? I'm just curious really.

Re: The nihilism of r/wallstreetbets

#43
With interest rates at 0% and a quarter of all US dollars in existence having been created in the last year, there is no other choice besides speculation to have any hope of getting ahead. Policymakers have made quite clear that "work hard, save money" is a suckers bet.

Re: The nihilism of r/wallstreetbets

#44
post #12
post #8

I don't know anything about WSB, but how does: > It’s a bunch of autistic losers that live in their mom’s basement who are gambling what little money they have to try and become rich to live lifestyles of hedonism square with "These people were involved in very meaningfully moving a stock price around" ?

The former is how they view themselves in a tongue and cheek fashion. The latter has more to do with how much the community has grown and how many people this community apparently resonates with.

> Degenerate gamblers

Well, they apparently do move markets. Whether that's good or bad remains to be seen and there's no telling what sort of action the SEC will take to curtail this. IMO all it will take is one bad day to have something happen. But wsb does understand one thing: the barriers to entry are artificially there - it doesn't take a quant with an MIT education to make and lose money.

Re: The nihilism of r/wallstreetbets

#45
Pretty good analysis, but I don't know if I agree with some of the final lines. Hard to see this as a "Molotov cocktail through the front window of the country and the global financial system". I mean they are literally playing by the rules of the financial system. This isn't Occupy Wall Street, or anything close to that. Sure, I get that they will declare bankruptcy and move on, but ultimately the major players of the global financial system are happy if people are buying stocks, win or lose.

Re: The nihilism of r/wallstreetbets

#46

WSB is hilarious. It’s also such a place of sadness. Taking credit card advances to YOLO into short-dated OTM call options is drug-addict level desperation. People joke about YOLOing their inheritance - and I suspect there’s some reality to it. Their parents’ entire life’s wealth can’t dig them out of whatever hole their in. The CNBC guys freaking out is incredible. Their Cramer feud is gold. But... this trend is dif…

I highly suspect the reason for this is because there is less income security for the young generation in 2021 compared to 1999.

In 1999, people under 40 were gambling large sums that, if lost, could be made back through x months of work.

In 2021, people under 40 are gambling any random ad hoc payment they receive in the attempt of calling it a career.

The reason? 10% of our country have great jobs, and the rest have none. That is a result of policy.

Re: The nihilism of r/wallstreetbets

#47

This post is a great tutorial in why we shouldn't derive meaning from expressed language. Imagine if you sat in a room of software engineers and tried to make conclusions about their life views based on their jargon: "I think what they're saying is you just need to form a single value store and react to it, dividing life into small composable micro components that are DRY. We can really comprehend how this minimalism…

“Computers are haunted never go near them” - every SWE I know

Re: The nihilism of r/wallstreetbets

#48

It just doesn't add up to me. If you take Gamestop (GME) today's hot item, it's trading 170M shares back and forth, at say, $70. That's $11B sloshing back and forth. You're telling me 10,000 (if even?) guys sitting at home doing retail trading have $1M each in positions driving this? 100,000 people with $100,000 each, during the day? I think it's quant and algorithmic trading. I would love to hear from an expert thou…

> I think it's quant and algorithmic trading.

Yeah, I wonder if ML-driven investing is being tricked by reddit into buying stock in failing companies and causing a runaway effect. If so, it makes me nervous that lots of stocks might be massively over-inflated right now.

Re: The nihilism of r/wallstreetbets

#49

It just doesn't add up to me. If you take Gamestop (GME) today's hot item, it's trading 170M shares back and forth, at say, $70. That's $11B sloshing back and forth. You're telling me 10,000 (if even?) guys sitting at home doing retail trading have $1M each in positions driving this? 100,000 people with $100,000 each, during the day? I think it's quant and algorithmic trading. I would love to hear from an expert thou…

Options generate leverage. Potentially lots of leverage.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-01-25/the-ga...

Re: The nihilism of r/wallstreetbets

#50
Here's a screenshot of Gamestop's ($GME) price across its entire existence , which I took near the peak today: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsluAdAXAAA_m9H?format=png&name=...

WSB (r/Wallstreetbets) is basically just an ultra-popular subreddit for gambling via buying options on stocks, which allow you to significantly increase your risk for potentially insane returns (feasible chances at 100-500%+ returns, but also a great chance you will literally go broke). This style of gambling is very easy to do and requires nothing more than a phone app for a brokerage (most commonly Robinhood) and a little cash (a few hundred dollars is definitely enough for some fun), with many users having little prior investing experience or knowledge. It's also much more fun to do in groups and to brag about on the Internet, as most things are.

Although many of the users have a lot of fun doing this, I'd personally estimate it has so far caused more than ten suicides, perhaps significantly more. I don't have a source for this aside from the number of subscribers (2,000,000) multiplied by an approximate amount of how many experience gambler's ruin at some point (..a lot, even many lucky ones), multiplied by a very low suicide success rate for some people who are hit particularly hard by losing money they've worked and saved for for years or decades. Having been near people gambling in one way or another for many years, it's difficult to state the amount of pain that someone can experience from abrupt financial losses, but we have had confirmed suicides from something as 'minor' as a glitch showing a user they had lost much more than they actually had (QA literally saves lives!): https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2020/06/17/20-y...

Coupling this with the current scenario of our market (very high volatility and strong upwards momentum in sectors anywhere from tech to IPOs to SPACs to cryptocurrencies) we are living in some interesting times. Investing has felt increasingly more like a casino to me over the last few years, and it seems to be entering its final phase at this point: you may want to avoid the casino, but the casino has become quite efficient at making this very hard to do, expanding its reach until you somehow find yourself surrounded by slot machines and lottery ticket winners. With popular stocks from FANG to Tesla having doubled or even 10-20X'd investors' money within months, you will be hard-pressed to keep yourself on the safe side of the gamblinginvesting dichotomy.

I'm not sure exactly where this ends up, besides, well, exactly where we are right now: more and more speculation, gambling, and volatility. Whether we will enter a 'single' bubble and eventually crash or just maintain this higher-risk chaotic state is of course, not predictable by me (and even if I could could predict bubbles, it is useless without precise and accurate timing predictions), but I must admit I've found myself falling into higher and higher risk 'investing' as well, especially as I found myself growing bored during covid lockdowns. I do think we will see some changes from the SEC at some point to try to curb this as well (also very interested in what they will do with WSB at some point, if anything), but those that want to gamble will always find ways to do so, so it may be futile. All I can say for certain is that you should be careful and to repeat the old adage of never investing what you cannot afford to lose, but both financially and emotionally.

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