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Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

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Re: Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

#71

Post by newbie578 »

I'm not part of the target demographic, but I will say this looks compelling to me. If Peloton can do it for cycling, I do not see the reason you cannot do it for rowing.

Although a pain point kind of seems obvious, Peloton is successful because cycling by itself is "approachable". Anyone can hop on a bike and just start cycling, doesn't matter on your gender, weight, or conditioning.

While rowing, eh.. You said it yourself, people avoid it in gyms like the plague. Don't get me wrong, I love rowing for the same reasons you do, rowing is the activity I do the most during the week.

It's just that a lot of people do not like rowing, or/and are scared of it, and the biggest "problem", it is hard, way harder than anything else in the gym.

So it seems that you are naturally blocked with a certain ceiling as to how much you can grow and where. While you are establishing a moat yourself to keep competitors away, the bigger question is how is the customer going to cross the "rowing moat" to even try your product?

Re: Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

#72

Post by FullNameAndy »

Multiplayer wrote: post #58

Hi - congrats on your amazing looking product and experience! I just purchased an Ergatta 2 weeks ago, waiting for delivery. In what circumstances would I want your product instead of the Ergatta? Background: I'm an avid peloton user for 3 years now, (also just picked up the tempo.fit for guided lifting) and am looking to mix in intense rowing sessions. The Ergatta looks compelling for gamified sessions with competit…

ha ha great question! Ergatta is a great product. They also offer some versions of competitive workouts. Where Aviron differs is our machines are built with dual magnetic and air resistance, this allows our machines to go to much higher resistance levels. For example, our strength programs will guide you through bicep curls and back rows where you are “lifting” 50+ Lbs. with each pull. A water rower on the other hand does not have variable resistance settings. Aviron also incorporates fully animated video games that include being chased by zombies and throw backs to old school favorites like pong and brick breaker. If you're interested we have a long-ish content video that goes into depth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN2PVuK73Xg

Re: Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

#73

Post by FullNameAndy »

AWildC182 wrote: post #62
FullNameAndy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great question and ADominic answered it well. The C2 is an amazing rower, I have one too. We don't target the hard core rower. And a huge part of our high intensity experience is the electronically controlled resistance that adds up to 100+ lbs of resistance. Our rower automatically adjusts the resistance depending on the workout and your goals.

Why vary resistance? Most athletes learn to handle one resistance setting, the National Team standard being IIRC DF120, though anything between 100 and 120 is fine. Changing it tends to throw people for a loop.

good question. Aviron's resistance settings are used to enable high intensity interval training (HIIT) and workout variety for the average person/ fitness enthusiast. For example we have strength programs that guide you through bicep curls using the bar (with an animation that shows feet firmly planted on the ground and a low and steady motion, if you're moving too quickly Aviron will sense it and tell you to slow down your movement)

Re: Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

#74

Post by cycomanic »

AWildC182 wrote: post #61
cycomanic wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a former rower as well, I disagree that sitting on a rower is dangerous for getting back injury. Considering that pretty much every gym I know just puts them in some corner without anyone around who knows how to row, I believe this is not an issue. I know of no one who has injured themselves rowing (on a machine or outside).

This is going to come down to experience but I'd say the majority of those I trained with had dealt with an injury at one point or another. Most women, particularly the lightweight class experienced broken ribs from strain across the core and most of the guys had lower back issues at one point or another. I'm not saying these things are death machines or anything, but the concept of adding essentially seated row to a…

Interesting I rowed more than 13 years on national level up to u21 and never had any back problems until I hit a car cycling and fracturing my t6. I also don't know of any of my former friends who developed back pain. I actually always put this done to having very good core strength from rowing.

In contrast or my cycling friends (which I took up after) have back problems, in particular the ones who started when young.

Mind you this was more than 20 years ago so maybe the training regime has changed.

Re: Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

#76

Post by sebasmurphy »

AWildC182 wrote: post #13

Long time high level rower here. Why make a new rowing machine when Concept 2 is the calibration standard all athletes use and has a relatively open USB interface? For those not in the know, rowing machines all have different calibrations. C2 is the standard because they're very consistent across machines and are by far the best made allowing for many thousands of hours of use without failures. Most experienced rower…

C2 is really an engineering masterpiece. Simple, works forever, cheap replaceable parts, anyone can do the maintenance after watching a YouTube vid.

Also super cool that you can upgrade the display/head unit w/o having to get a new rower.

It's also significantly cheaper than this machine and has exceptionally high re-sale value.

Re: Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

#77

Post by robomartin »

I wish you great success.

That said, be aware that true rowers hate some of this stuff because you can actually hurt people through various kinds of repetitive motion injuries if you don't teach, promote and highlight proper technique. The people you have on video yanking on the handle are a sure-bet formula for getting hurt. Which means you could be looking at one ore more lawsuits in the future.

It's the same with lifting.

Context: Rower for quite some time, currently own and have owned Concept 2 machines for years. Owned a range or rowing shells for years. Also strength training.

Re: Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

#78

Post by cycomanic »

useful wrote: post #65

I have a C2 and a Wahoo Kickr. I think you are targeting the wrong market if you intend to build a machine. As a cyclist, the market sweet spot to me is the ability to set a wattage on a rower and have the machine automatically adjust the resistance so that I can hit the correct wattage/hour. On the bike, holding a steady cadence and having the machine adjust the resistance so I can hit whatever % of FTP I'm wanting…

I have a tacx bike, no rower at the moment, but I get on them every time I'm at the gym.

I think the smart bike and rower are very different in terms of what you'd do with them. In contrast to a smart bike a rower who constantly adjusts is much harder to use. In fact on low resistance rowers are almost impossible to use. It's also much easier than on the bike to row at a specific wattage without ever adjusting the resistance (mind you that requires some technique).

Re: Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

#79

Post by FullNameAndy »

rloomba wrote: post #51
elliekelly wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not OP but I suspect I'm in their target demographic. Orangetheory Fitness doesn't use the Concept2 and no one cares. I've never once heard anyone at Orangetheory complain that the machine wasn't a Concept2. I don't think the former rowers in this thread complaining about the machine are at all reflective of the public at large.

lol you're paying $20 for a 45 min class at Orange Theory... if you're shelling out $2500 for a new piece of gym equipment, you're going to care a little bit more.

Our customers justify the high price when you consider multiple family members would use the machine. Plus, convenience has been a major factor. Not having to book a class time, find parking, etc. they rather pay more than deal with that.

Re: Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

#80

Post by FullNameAndy »

robomartin wrote: post #77

I wish you great success. That said, be aware that true rowers hate some of this stuff because you can actually hurt people through various kinds of repetitive motion injuries if you don't teach, promote and highlight proper technique. The people you have on video yanking on the handle are a sure-bet formula for getting hurt. Which means you could be looking at one ore more lawsuits in the future. It's the same with…

Thank you and I completely agree. I gave my parents a rower and making sure they use proper form and technique were critical. We continue to work on ways to prevent injuries.
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