Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani • Hacker News Board

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#121

Post by tedunangst » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

p49k wrote: post #109

adictator wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would anyone know they are baseless unless a proper investigation is conducted independently? What about the thousands of sworn affidavits? Surely, ALL of them can't be lying.

I’ve read some of them. No one is necessary lying, but most of the testimony is of the format “I think I saw somebody acting in a way that I felt was incompetent or malicious, even thought I was an outsider with little knowledge of the process” or “I witnessed abuse regarding over- or undercounting of votes” — claims which were later easily disproven by the hand counts. I see no reason why all of them can’t be wrong…

Don't forget "somebody was wearing a lot of rhinestones." That one was probably true. Not sure what the relation was to election integrity, but it was in the binder.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#122

Post by gilbetron » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

failrate wrote: post #83

reaperducer wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of very smart people doing fascinating work on cryptographic voting protocols. We should be funding and encouraging them, and doing all our elections with paper ballots until everyone currently working in that field has retired. It's funny how things change. Just five years ago, HN was awash in people shouting that paper ballots are not secure and everyone should switch to electronic. Now the conventio…

Keeping a password on a Post it is still dangerous.

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/06/write_down_yo...

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#123

Post by NDizzle » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

rm999 wrote: post #105

NDizzle wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your response to the activities highlighted in this 1m21s video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNM3K0cH2tc Non transparency. Bullies chasing out witnesses and poll watchers. Why?

I usually avoid commenting on political stuff, but my advice is to please find a better source for information than Scott Adams. He's a smart guy, but he is a strong proponent of "persuasion", i.e. changing people's minds is more valuable to him than presenting the facts accurately. This video is a classic example of his persuasion style, which is to make sloppy claims with flimsy evidence simply to make his opponent…

Are you saying that I should track down and link each video of each of those individual situations that happened? And put it in a post on HN to be downvoted exactly as much as the Scott Adams video?

Pardon me for getting the exact same results for like 1/80th the amount of work.

Go ahead and dismiss all of those videos because they are in a supercut featuring Scott Adams. You do you.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#124

Post by rtkwe » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

NDizzle wrote: post #72

yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

What's your response to the activities highlighted in this 1m21s video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNM3K0cH2tc Non transparency. Bullies chasing out witnesses and poll watchers. Why?

Well without any details on where these clips are coming from it's impossible to know what's happening or if it's already been addressed.

A number of the clips though look like they're from the Detroit counting at the TMC Center where some Republican observers weren't allowed back in after they left because the room was at capacity because they'd been replaced by other Republican observers. At no point were there only Democratic observers or a significant imbalance, both parties had observers that weren't able to reenter!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/10/fac...

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#125

Post by dalbasal » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

adictator wrote: post #38

yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

How would anyone know they are baseless unless a proper investigation is conducted independently? What about the thousands of sworn affidavits? Surely, ALL of them can't be lying.

In this age of postmodernism, post-truth, peek-facebook or whatever we're calling it... A "proper investigation" can't be determined to be proper unless an investigation of the investigation takes place.

At least in terms of convincing "everyone" of anything, it's turtles all the way down.

This lawsuit will be an investigation of sorts. If they aren't baseless, dominion can't win.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#126

Post by reaperducer » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

HenryKissinger wrote: post #31

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as potentially hackable voting machines are used in elections, the anxiety about hacking will be there and will eventually be exploited by politicians. If we want to fix the issue, we really just need to move back to hand counting paper ballots.

For a community (HN) so focused on technology and the future, I'm surprised to see support for antiquated technology such as paper ballots. Does the future of voting not belong to online remote voting, like almost everything else? You can even buy a house from your phone now. In the future, we will know the results of the election as soon as the online polls close. The future is paperless.

I'm surprised to see support for antiquated technology such as paper ballots.

"Antiquated" is a loaded word that smacks of ageism. Restaurants are antiquated, too. Do you never go out to eat?

Does the future of voting not belong to online remote voting, like almost everything else?

Are you trying to say that every other country votes paperless? Because that's simply not true.

You can even buy a house from your phone now

You have obviously never bought a house, and certainly not one from your phone. Just because there's an ad on YouTube doesn't make it true.

In the future, we will know the results of the election as soon as the online polls close.

Why is that necessary? What benefit does it provide?

The future is paperless.

People have been saying that for over a hundred years. Yet, here we are, still with a durable, recordable medium that does things that paperless methods can't.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#127

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 5:04 PM UTC

walkedaway wrote: post #119

yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

Completely agree. Let's hold our politicians accountable. https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/864522009048494080 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2019...

[deleted]

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#128

Post by patwolfe » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 5:05 PM UTC

justinzollars wrote: post #63

I worked on campaigns for 10 years, I was an elected Hillary Rodham Clinton DNC Delegate and I witnessed real problems that should be of concern of every American. Votes should be cast in person, with identification and counted by hand. If Democracy is sacred we can wait a few days for results we can all trust. The system is clearly breaking down today where 75% of Republicans do not trust the election results and 75…

Do you have a source for the claim that 75% of Democrats didn't trust the 2016 election? While I've read reports about frustration with the electoral college among Hilary voters and a fear of election interference from foreign nations, I haven't read much about that level of suspicion of ballot-level fraud. I would push back on the idea that those concerns (which I don't feel qualified to speak on that true validity of) are equivalent to the idea pushed by Donald Trump that there was a scheme to legitimately steal the election, as in to produce a situation where the votes cast do not determine the winner.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#129

Post by wyldfire » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

covidthrow wrote: post #102

tgb wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern machines differ from old ones is a very significant way: they give you a paper ballot that you - the voter - can verify before submitting.

And how many people do you think review that paper? Probably as many as review their grocery store receipts, I'd guess. Which is to say, practically none.

How would the machine predict which voters to deceive? I reviewed my printed ballot before submitting it. I'd guess it is probably more than "practically none". If 0.1% of voters did this, it would be 159633 ballots reviewed. If the tainted machines consistently changed these ballots to the same presidential candidate, ~80,000 voters would have had an opportunity to detect a dishonest voting machine. What ratio of votes would need to change in order to change the outcome? And what ratio would the bad actors predict was necessary in advance of the election?

But regardless of the above -- the design change to include printed ballots was a big improvement in security and voter confidence in the election.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#130

Post by patwolfe » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #92

yalogin wrote: post #19

Unfortunately this is not a good thing for Dominion in the long term. The cult made up lies and successfully convinced a large population its real and the whole party brass is in on the scam. However this is a terrible situation for Dominion. They are forced to sue to prove they are not in the wrong, however that will spun as choosing sides and they could be kicked out when the contract ends. For the cult, this compa…

There is no good thing for Dominion in the long term. They have, in fact, suffered irreparable damage. The lawsuits here are not performative.

Yeah, isn't the reason they are suing that the lawsuits have caused long-term damage... not sure what the above poster was getting at with their comment.