Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani • Hacker News Board

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#51

Post by CydeWeys » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

corey_moncure wrote: post #39

rpiguyshy wrote: post #14

before donald trump was ever in office, i always believed that these voting machines are complete bullshit. our entire voting system is bullshit. and it would be easy to fix. these machines have been shown to be massively flawed and vulnerable to hacking/tinkering. again, this was my opinion before donald trump was elected.

I was a heavy Slashdot user before the takeover, and now Hacker News fills the hole in my browsing that Slashdot left. If you're like me, you'll remember the many articles about the vulnerability of Diebold voting machines. This has always been a concern, since at least the early '00s or before. I guess people have a very selective amnesia.

The original Diebold machines, at least, were purely electronic; they did not leave an auditable paper trail like the Dominion machines do. So we've fortunately learned a lot in the intervening decades and have fixed the glaring security flaws.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#52

Post by enraged_camel » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

HenryKissinger wrote: post #31

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as potentially hackable voting machines are used in elections, the anxiety about hacking will be there and will eventually be exploited by politicians. If we want to fix the issue, we really just need to move back to hand counting paper ballots.

For a community (HN) so focused on technology and the future, I'm surprised to see support for antiquated technology such as paper ballots. Does the future of voting not belong to online remote voting, like almost everything else? You can even buy a house from your phone now. In the future, we will know the results of the election as soon as the online polls close. The future is paperless.

No it isn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkH2r-sNjQs

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#53

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #36

yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

Won’t baseless accusations of no voter fraud undermine the confidence even more? After all, is there any evidence for voter fraud in Russia?

[deleted]

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#54

Post by vernie » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

rpiguyshy wrote: post #14

before donald trump was ever in office, i always believed that these voting machines are complete bullshit. our entire voting system is bullshit. and it would be easy to fix. these machines have been shown to be massively flawed and vulnerable to hacking/tinkering. again, this was my opinion before donald trump was elected.

It's too bad that you're using a brand new account and there's no evidence of you holding this position before 2017.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#55

Post by ncallaway » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

rpiguyshy wrote: post #14

before donald trump was ever in office, i always believed that these voting machines are complete bullshit. our entire voting system is bullshit. and it would be easy to fix. these machines have been shown to be massively flawed and vulnerable to hacking/tinkering. again, this was my opinion before donald trump was elected.

The good news is election security researchers mostly agree with you.

The prevailing opinion of election security professionals is that State election systems should be designed assuming the machines are insecure and the process should be tolerant to that fault.

That's why many states that use electronic voting or tabulation produce a voter verifiable paper trail. That means, when you're done voting the machine gives the voter a piece of paper that has their votes on it. The voter can check the paper to ensure it matches their votes, then deposits the paper record like a ballot.

State's can then use Risk Limiting Audits to verify a necessary amount of randomly sampled ballots to ensure that the electronic count matches the voter verifiable paper ballots.

So, if your concern is that the GA election was overturned by electronic tampering you would need to explain why the voter verifiable paper trail extremely closely matched the electronic tabulation.

This is a long-winded way of saying I agree with you. There are some states that use electronic voting or tabulation without a voter-verifiable paper trail and risk limiting audits. Fortunately, none of those states were "disputed" in this election. But those states should absolutely switch to these kinds of systems.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#56

Post by bredren » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

mbg721 wrote: post #41

yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

Dissent is only to be tolerated when it's politically convenient. Come on, man.

I get a sense that these threads are getting worked over with automation.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#57

Post by dragontamer » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #36

yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

Won’t baseless accusations of no voter fraud undermine the confidence even more? After all, is there any evidence for voter fraud in Russia?

Presumably, the issue is baseless accusations in general. It doesn't matter what side a baseless claim happens: its bad either way.

Dominion Voting Systems must prove that Rudy Giuliani was making up information to succeed in this court case. Unfortunately, defamation is surprisingly hard to win in the USA (which is why the US's Tabloid media can get so far with so many claims).

Dominion Voting Systems is not a public figure however, its a company. That... probably makes it easier to win this case.

Still, if Dominion's lawyers think that this case is worth pursuing (despite the difficulty of defamation / libel / slander), that doesn't bode well for Rudy.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#58

Post by yesdocs » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

mbg721 wrote: post #41

yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

Dissent is only to be tolerated when it's politically convenient. Come on, man.

Dissent when it’s politically convenient, is just dissent.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#59

Post by tartoran » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

phone8675309 wrote: post #42

yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

Love it when corporations use lawsuits to chill speech

It's their right to defend their reputation. If there is any proof against them let those come to light and if the machines are indeed not good let the company go belly up. But what if the allegations are lies? Shouldn't the originators of those lies take responsibility?

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#60

Post by csours » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

seanalltogether wrote: post #43

I remember a lot of accusation about Diebold voting back in the 2000s, and concerns about lack of auditability. My understanding is that newer systems now let you vote at a machine, but it spits out a receipt that the voter can verify and the county can hold on to for the sake of audits and recounts. Is this standard now, or on a state by state basis?

Worse, depending on state it may be statewide, or county by county.