Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

431–440 of 519 posts

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#431

Post by cbmuser »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #404
limaoscarjuliet wrote: post #183

The next step is to work on cleaner electricity. While most EU got the message long time ago, eastern bloc countries are much behind. Currently in Poland it is better for the environment to drive a diesel VW Golf than Tesla, as the electricity is produced from brown coal.

You're not considering the local nature of the emissions and diesel's dirtier effect on organisms. How much closer are the cars to the populace, relative to the power plant?

And you are ignoring that electric cars produce fine dust particles from their brakes and tyres as well.

The fine dust is actually a much more serious problem in the city than combustion engine emissions as the latter are passed through particle filters and the catalyst.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#432

Post by curiousllama »

matwood wrote: post #381
guitarsteve wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Miami area after Hurricane Irma in 2017, we couldn’t find gas for our cars for about a week. I think the pumps for gas stations require electricity (which was also out) plus deliveries were disrupted by downed trees, traffic signal outages, etc. Just an anecdote that gasoline is not always available during crises. We did have electricity at home but neighboring buildings and neighborhoods had outages for a wee…

I have also been through many hurricanes. A point you're missing is that places like a gas stations are prioritized to getting power back on over a place like your house. In one large hurricane as a kid, my house didn't get power back for almost a month. With that said, many places on the coast have improved a lot by building power lines underground. We never even lost power in the last storm I went through a few yea…

This is a good point. Do electric charging stations get the same prioritization, do you know?

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#433

Post by cbmuser »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #402
Tade0 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EV market in Poland is extremely small for a 38mln country, so I believe that by the time it reaches appropriate size the scale will tip in favour of EVs - after all we're bound by EU emissions targets and the associated CO2 market. Brown coal has been declining in Poland faster than anticipated: https://wysokienapiecie.pl/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/polish... It is being replaced by imported hard coal, but that's…

Why does coal have such staying power in Poland? I've heard all about their coal reliance, is it political powers and mining powers who keep it that way? How is air quality and asthma in the country?

Poland is planning to build six nuclear reactors in the near future.

One of the biggest consumers of coal within the EU is actually Germany which have a rising reliance on fossil fuels due to them shutting down nuclear power plants.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#434

Post by cbmuser »

guitarsteve wrote: post #42
angmarsbane wrote: post #17

One thing I keep getting tripped up on with EV cars is the usability during an emergency. I grew up in SoCal when there were rolling black-outs. Just this week, a windstorm took out my parent’s power for 3 days. I don’t view electricity to be as reliable as gas. What fact am I missing that can change my view on this?

In the Miami area after Hurricane Irma in 2017, we couldn’t find gas for our cars for about a week. I think the pumps for gas stations require electricity (which was also out) plus deliveries were disrupted by downed trees, traffic signal outages, etc. Just an anecdote that gasoline is not always available during crises. We did have electricity at home but neighboring buildings and neighborhoods had outages for a wee…

Well, you can put gas into a canister and manually refill it. That’s not possible with electric cars unless you want to use a hometrainer with a generator to charge your car.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#435

Post by YinglingLight »

anovikov wrote: post #299
bluetomcat wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Western urge for constantly rethinking and reevaluating history and traditions, for innovations in art and science, does not lead to an inherently stable society in the long run that spans across centuries. The changes themselves introduce new kinds of problems requiring new solutions, and that affects the societal structure in unpredictable ways. Japan and South Korea are western only in a superficial sense, in…

If anything, China is an example of a society NOT stable over long term. Here in the West, we basically had two large disturbances in 2000 years: collapse of Western Roman empire (which wasn't even as bad it they made it look because most economy was in the Eastern part of it, that fared reasonably well through that crisis), and Black Death. As a big big stretch, one can also point at Napoleonic Wars and WWII but nei…

This.

The Chinese aren't 'Chinese' from the perspective of a long-term, multi-generational viewer. Not biologically, not societally, not even culturally.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#436

Post by anovikov »

throw0101a wrote: post #391
bluetomcat wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Western urge for constantly rethinking and reevaluating history and traditions, for innovations in art and science, does not lead to an inherently stable society in the long run that spans across centuries. The changes themselves introduce new kinds of problems requiring new solutions, and that affects the societal structure in unpredictable ways. Japan and South Korea are western only in a superficial sense, in…

> The Western urge for constantly rethinking and reevaluating history and traditions, for innovations in art and science, does not lead to an inherently stable society in the long run that spans across centuries. A stable society that spans centuries can stagnate. See Imperial China and Japan before Admiral Perry showed up. In 1600, the Chinese (and Moghul India) were probably more advanced than Europe in many respec…

Fantastic! Compare this utterly bullshit Chinese world "map" from 1609: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Sancai_T...

With Piri Reis map from 100 years before: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91XW2CEmU4L...

(which is a part of an atlas, picturing many areas of the world with literally amazing detail and precision)

Granted, Piri Reis did an amazing job, even raising a few conspiracy theories on how he did it, but here is the fairly average European map of the world from 1609:

https://www.loc.gov/resource/g3200.ct001217r/

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#437

Post by africanboy »

ThomPete wrote: post #376
africanboy wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

better air quality, reduced risk of lung disease, longer, better lives?

The air quality in the west is better than it is in much less developed areas of the world. People live longer because of the use of fossil fuel and can live better lives spending less time on basic things like creating food and managing shelter to stay alive and they have more time doing meaningful things. Fossil fuel industry is the industry that have made it possible for us to live longer, and feed as many people…

> than it is in much less developed areas of the world

I believe Amazonia air quality is much better than air quality in Milan (where I lived for 10 years).

https://www.iqair.com/italy/lombardy/milano

> Fossil fuel industry is the industry that have made it possible for us to live longer

I'm not at war with fossil fuel industry, I was simply answering to this question

> what deductions are we giving for the positive externalities?

My dad worked in pulmonary oncology for 35 years, I think that better air quality, less lung disease and better overall environment is a reward itself, that's the prize we get for positive externalities (and in case of EVs the State incentives, in Italy they are up to 10k euros if you buy a new EV car and get rid of an old ICE one).

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#438

Post by chrisBob »

natch wrote: post #140
ip26 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4x4 mechanically locks the front and rear axles together. Valuable vs AWD for driving in very low traction conditions like sand, mud, deep snow. Should not be engaged on dry pavement. AWD dynamically routes power and is always on.

Thanks! I wonder if the “valuable vs AWD” part is updated to reflect what EVs can do vs old fashioned gears-and-transmission AWD.

EVs typically have a different motor for the front and back wheels, so they would have most of the same traction benefit of a 4x4 system. In the case of companies like Tesla, I think they market as AWD because that implies a system designed for slippery roads, and not off road trails. 4x4 or 4WD can differ a lot but all typically include a locking center differential so that even if both front (or rear) wheels have no traction, the vehicle can move.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#439

Post by leetcrew »

selykg wrote: post #416
leetcrew wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're right, the value of the broken car itself is irrelevant to whether it is economic to repair. what is relevant is the cost of a reasonable replacement. if it costs $2000 to to fix the car, you might be better off scrapping it and buying a different used car with that $2000 that actually runs.

I still say that's not a good argument. If the repair costs $2000 to fix the car, and it's otherwise fine, then it's worth it over another car so long as it is still getting the job done. Where I would agree with you is when the car is no longer safe, either from a structural standpoint, or due to safety standards improving drastically. In those types of scenarios it is worth buying a new car simply for those reasons…

> But here's an example. Say you have a car. It's worth $1000 but is otherwise in fine condition. It runs great, it's safe, it is rust free and structurally sound. Except it needs to tires. Lets say those tires cost $750 because you also have to buy a new wheel and maybe the tires are harder to find. Do you go "well... that's too much... I'm just going to throw the car out and get a new one

I think the same logic applies? $750 is way too low to have a good chance at finding a replacement that is relatively safe, structurally sound, etc. $2000 on the other hand is pretty close to buying a mid-2000s civic with no accidents on record. there's no clear cut answer here; either repair or replace could be the optimal choice depending on projected maintenance costs and your local used car market.

of course, this is all based on the assumption that your current car is already a beater. I probably wouldn't scrap/sell my 2017 vw if it needed a $2000 repair.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#440

Post by bluGill »

nicoburns wrote: post #357
liotier wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rampant individualism also makes society weaker. It reduces a societies ability to collaborate. Let's not mistake diversity for individualism. We can be diverse, yet share overarching ideals - such as living together peacefully and in solidarity.

> We can be diverse, yet share overarching ideals - such as living together peacefully and in solidarity. We can , but increasingly I see people arguing that we should forgoe those and determine our actions in society based on our own individual interest and market mechanisms.

Increasingly I see people argue we should take up a socialist society.

Not hard to see why a raise in either of the above would result in the other side getting even more extreme in reaction.

Post reply on HN