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Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

theguardian.com

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Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#411

Post by neartheplain »

bluetomcat wrote: post #234
kstenerud wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autocracies are only short-term efficient. Once their initial aims are met, they become terribly inefficient, then corruption sets in, and then they must be forcibly removed. It's good for other nations who can benefit from their trailblazing, but bad for the nation itself because they're basically fucked in the future when the bill comes due. Centralization is long-term the worst kind of governance, inevitably becom…

> Autocracies are only short-term efficient. Once their initial aims are met, they become terribly inefficient, then corruption sets in, and then they must be forcibly removed. From the point of view of Western individualism, yes. However, a strong autocracy relies on building a strong collective identity through education and the cultural institutions. That identity isolates the individual from his personal beliefs…

The notion of a "strong collective identity through education and the cultural institutions" that "isolates the individual from his personal beliefs and justifies his suffering" is not uniquely Eastern. It has a long history in Europe, with mixed results.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rise_of_nationalism_in_Europe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationalism

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#412

Post by throwaway0a5e »

julianlam wrote: post #374
jeffreygoesto wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"just old" applies to the battery technology used when they were built. Not to "a car" in general. It is totally uneconomic to scrap a car only because one part broke. I own a car from 1978 that is in very good shape (for some minimal maintenance cost, you should not just let it rot).

The calculus changes when you factor in labour cost. If the transmission from your 1978 car gives out, will you take it into the shop?

Transmission R&R on anything from 1978 is probably gonna cost less than much more "routine" work on anything from 2020.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#413

Post by brianwawok »

sergiosgc wrote: post #406
brianwawok wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New or used? In the US the realistic floor for a new car is 20k. A few smart cars and such for less, but not anything sold seriously.

Is this real? In Europe you can get a Fiat Panda, brand new, for 9k€. Smallish engine, barebones interior, but overall a pretty decent car.

Yes.

Cheapest Honda 21k https://automobiles.honda.com/tools/build-and-price#panel-so...

Cheapest Ford $19,995 https://shop.ford.com/showroom/?linktype=brand&intcmp=hp-sho...

Those budget brands generally don’t have dealers here.

Like I said you can maybe find a weird budget dealer somewhere, but it’s well under 1% if sales volume.

Low budget people typically buy 3-15 year old versions of these cars (which is easily under 10k cost).

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#414

Post by throwaway0a5e »

sergiosgc wrote: post #406
brianwawok wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New or used? In the US the realistic floor for a new car is 20k. A few smart cars and such for less, but not anything sold seriously.

Is this real? In Europe you can get a Fiat Panda, brand new, for 9k€. Smallish engine, barebones interior, but overall a pretty decent car.

>Is this real? In Europe you can get a Fiat Panda, brand new, for 9k€. Smallish engine, barebones interior, but overall a pretty decent car.

Mitsubishi Mirage and other ~15k hatches fly off the (metaphorical) shelves.

Just not in the kinds of neighborhoods HN tends to live in.

Also HN's househeeper tends to buy a used Corrolla (or some other hallmark of upper middle class conspicuous consumption) from one of their clients so HN doesn't have that sort of exposure vector either.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#415

Post by throwaway0a5e »

brianwawok wrote: post #413
sergiosgc wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this real? In Europe you can get a Fiat Panda, brand new, for 9k€. Smallish engine, barebones interior, but overall a pretty decent car.

Yes. Cheapest Honda 21k https://automobiles.honda.com/tools/build-and-price#panel-so... Cheapest Ford $19,995 https://shop.ford.com/showroom/?linktype=brand&intcmp=hp-sho... Those budget brands generally don’t have dealers here. Like I said you can maybe find a weird budget dealer somewhere, but it’s well under 1% if sales volume. Low budget people typically buy 3-15 year old versions of these cars (which is easily u…

You picked a brand that is a hallmark of upper middle class conspicuous consumption and a brand that doesn't make economy cars (for the North American market) anymore.

The Mitsubishi Mirage, Nissan Versa and Chevy Spark (hatchbacks comparable to the small European cars the GP mentioned) MSRP at under 15k.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#416

Post by selykg »

leetcrew wrote: post #409
selykg wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is always so hung up on the value of the car when it comes to repairs. The value of the car is only what someone would pay for it. If you're planning to keep it, then that value is only an insurance number. A car is potentially worth a lot more if you keep it, especially if the car is low maintenance. With electric cars you trade some value up front (they are typically more expensive) to reduce the maintenan…

you're right, the value of the broken car itself is irrelevant to whether it is economic to repair. what is relevant is the cost of a reasonable replacement. if it costs $2000 to to fix the car, you might be better off scrapping it and buying a different used car with that $2000 that actually runs.

I still say that's not a good argument.

If the repair costs $2000 to fix the car, and it's otherwise fine, then it's worth it over another car so long as it is still getting the job done.

Where I would agree with you is when the car is no longer safe, either from a structural standpoint, or due to safety standards improving drastically. In those types of scenarios it is worth buying a new car simply for those reasons.

Maintenance has to be done regardless of what kind of car you have. If you're skipping those steps then it'll come back to bite you. I think people just don't like maintenance because they think it should be less than the value of the car. Which is simply not the case. Cars aren't investments (typically) in the sense that their value rarely goes up. It goes down, almost always.

Maintenance is done to keep the vehicle operating properly, reliable, safe, and in good condition. Sometimes those maintenance steps may increase it's value slightly

But here's an example. Say you have a car. It's worth $1000 but is otherwise in fine condition. It runs great, it's safe, it is rust free and structurally sound. Except it needs to tires. Lets say those tires cost $750 because you also have to buy a new wheel and maybe the tires are harder to find. Do you go "well... that's too much... I'm just going to throw the car out and get a new one"

If you do, you're doing it wrong. The same is true for battery maintenance. If the car is otherwise fine, it's like buying any other maintenance. You may not LIKE that you have to pay for maintenance, but it's part of vehicle ownership.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#417

Post by leetcrew »

brianwawok wrote: post #315
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the bottom end of the market is going to disappear. Right now I could buy a car for £1000. It won't be great but it would be good enough to get somebody too and from work and the shops. That won't be feasible when a new battery costs £5000 or more.

New or used? In the US the realistic floor for a new car is 20k. A few smart cars and such for less, but not anything sold seriously.

nissan versa starts at $15k. it's a subcompact sedan that I would never want to own, but it has four doors and can fit two child seats in the back row.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#418

Post by jfengel »

akgerber wrote: post #393
nelsonmandela wrote: post #273

Man I wish they'd sell an electric car without all the cameras, tracking and self driving stuff.

You can buy a Kandi in the US today, often for under $10,000 after subsidies. https://www.kandiamerica.com/ It does have a backup camera, as basic camera modules and screens are essentially free now. If you're in an urban area, consider an ebike for a light electric vehicle without unnecessary frills that you can store in your home.

Backup cameras are now required on new cars in the US.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/cars-us-now-required-backup-camera...

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#419

Post by cbmuser »

theshrike79 wrote: post #100
godmode2019 wrote: post #81

'Global sales' I hope everyone understands in China it is very hard to get a licence plate, the government allows you to get a licence plate if you buy a heavily subsidised electric car. The aim is to stimulate demand to develop an industry. Large cities also banned motorbikes and scooters, with the same aim. This is no way market driven demand, BYD is a very interesting company to look into. It is my understanding t…

China is a country lead by engineers with unlimited power to do whatever they want. If they want all cars to be electric, that will happen. If they want a 5 million person city just there because it's logistically advantageous, then that will happen. The good thing is that they can make decisions like this. The bad thing is that they can make decisions like this.

No, even China cannot defeat the laws of Physics.

Good luck trying to drive through a remote rural area in winter with an electric vehicle.

You will realize pretty soon why battery-powered vehicles are not the universal solution that some people claim they are.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#420

Post by missedthecue »

petra wrote: post #269
jacquesm wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything I think the pandemic shows that the 'free West' sucks at responding to such threats. We've done miserably compared to Singapore, China and Vietnam.

That's true even if you leave the US out ?

US has a lower death rate than the UK, Italy, Belgium, Czechia, Hungary, and several other European states.
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