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Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

economist.com

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Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#91

Post by Cthulhu_ »

itake wrote: post #66
Synaesthesia wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be pretty elementary to solve homelessness, as Finland has shown. There's also no reason we can't have full employment. The Soviet Union had it.

I’ve lived in LA, SF, and Boulder. Most of the homeless in these cities are not interested in being apart of society. They are perfectly happy with their lifestyle of mental health and drug addictions. Yes, there is a minority of homeless struggling to rejoin society, but the (pardon verbiage) worst people have no interest or empathy for society.

You're already coming across as very judgmental of these people. Have you actually talked to them? Do you know why they prefer their lifestyle? I mean you just implied that mental health is a lifestyle or addiction (??? maybe check your phrasing), and that drug addiction is a lifestyle choice instead of e.g. a coping mechanism because society failed them.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#92

Post by leesalminen »

flagrant wrote: post #75
sharpneli wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He said mainly. No all. You do understand that everyone gets social security as money if they need. The problems happen if they are unable to use that money to pay the rent. And yes indeed the main reason is some sort of intoxicant use, as they rather get more stuff than use the money for rent. Legal debts are also not a reason not to pay rent, as one is protected from repaying them when it's about essentials. So tha…

I'll be happy to retract the "hateful" comment if anyone can provide evidence that "people are mainly homeless in Finland because they would prefer to get drunk".

Here ya go [0] https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream/handle/10138/220951/Mort...

Check out page 845 showing death by alcohol poisoning is 5x higher in the homeless population of Finland than the whole of the country.

FWIW, and anecdotally, my ancestry is Finnish and we are known for having issues with alcohol. The majority of my extended family has drinking issues. Within our Finnish-American community, it’s believed that Finns have some sort of gene that pre-disposes us to drink to excess.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#93

Post by flagrant »

leesalminen wrote: post #92
flagrant wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be happy to retract the "hateful" comment if anyone can provide evidence that "people are mainly homeless in Finland because they would prefer to get drunk".

Here ya go [0] https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream/handle/10138/220951/Mort... Check out page 845 showing death by alcohol poisoning is 5x higher in the homeless population of Finland than the whole of the country. FWIW, and anecdotally, my ancestry is Finnish and we are known for having issues with alcohol. The majority of my extended family has drinking issues. Within our Finnish-American community, it’s believed t…

Thanks, but I didn't ask for evidence that "alcohol poisoning is 5x higher in the homeless population", I asked for evidence that "people are mainly homeless in Finland because they would prefer to get drunk."

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#94

Post by Cthulhu_ »

u678u wrote: post #18

In areas of the USA with the population density of Finland there isn't much (any?) homelessness either.

And your point is...?

I mean I guess culling the population to make the price of housing drop is one solution, but it's a bit strong don't you think?

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#95

Post by usr1106 »

Well, there are fewer homeless in Finnish cities than in many other European big cities. Note that there are only 5 cities in Finland that are big enough for homeless people. I don't think homeless people live in small towns anywhere in Europe.

On the other hand a Finnish newspaper wrote just yesterday[1] that the amount of street children (teenagers mostly) is increasing all the time and nobody really cares. The phenomenon goes mostly unreported, because according to the law it's impossible to happen. Authorities would be obliged to take care, in reality they are incapable. Mostly understaffed and to some degree also incompetent.

[1] Don't remember which one, read 3 of them.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#96

Post by leesalminen »

flagrant wrote: post #93
leesalminen wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here ya go [0] https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream/handle/10138/220951/Mort... Check out page 845 showing death by alcohol poisoning is 5x higher in the homeless population of Finland than the whole of the country. FWIW, and anecdotally, my ancestry is Finnish and we are known for having issues with alcohol. The majority of my extended family has drinking issues. Within our Finnish-American community, it’s believed t…

Thanks, but I didn't ask for evidence that "alcohol poisoning is 5x higher in the homeless population", I asked for evidence that "people are mainly homeless in Finland because they would prefer to get drunk."

Well, that’s all you’re going to get out of me. I gave you a 30 second google search. Have a great day!

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#97

Post by ido »

oblio wrote: post #87
ido wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Investigating how Romanians often think and talk about the Roma people in their country may be more harmful to their reputation than thinking the beggars are non-Roma Romanians.

I don't think it's fair to single us out, though. This social problem, integration, is present in almost exactly the same way in Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Serbia. To a lesser degree it's also present in Spain from what I know. It's far from a simple problem. As the Finns are discovering.

True, this is widespread and not unique to Romania.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#98

Post by Supermancho »

flagrant wrote: post #45
sharpneli wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this hateful nonsense? Every citizen is eligible for that support. Do you perhaps live here so you can say it's not true? Sure it's not always perfect, errors in bureaucracy happens sometimes but getting social security is the default. If you accept it you get a house.

Without evidence, he stated that all homeless people in Finland are homeless because they would "prefer to get drunk". I don't think it's incorrect to describe this as hateful, because it's very clearly informed by a bias against homeless people rather than any real evidence. This is the equivalent of jumping into a discussion to say that Black people are poor because they "keep buying cellphones". It's not a serious…

> it's cloaked hatred.

Homelessness causes suffering which is usually self-treated with substance abuse. This is not a hateful commentary.

I'm not sure how a blanket characterization equates to "hate", when it's a lazy attribution due to indifference. Maybe disdain is the appropriate term.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#99

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

ido wrote: post #62
jeofken wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to the reputation of Romanians on HN, the beggars and squatters around Finland, Norway, and Sweden are not ethnic Romanians even if they often are born there, but come from the Zigeuner/Gypsy/Roma people.

Investigating how Romanians often think and talk about the Roma people in their country may be more harmful to their reputation than thinking the beggars are non-Roma Romanians.

Things are more complicated than that. Romania is home to more than one Roma people. The Roma who go to Finland for organized begging are almost exclusively from the south of the country. They can actually seem quite foreign to Romanians from e.g. parts of Transylvania. There, the local Roma are often associated with different ways of making a living than begging, and speak a different set of languages preferentially. Some ethnic Romanians from Transylvania may be very tolerant about their local Roma community, but feel that those particular Roma people from particular counties are ruining things for everyone. Even Transylvanian Roma people can feel that way about the Roma from elsewhere.

Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing

#100

Post by agumonkey »

Cloudef wrote: post #55
agumonkey wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's unrelated, people like that are not ready to function 'normally', they need a shelter, asylum, hospital. It's an emotional problem more than material.

If they don't cause harm to other people, you can't really force them or tell them they are living their life wrong.

You're very contrarian it seems and that's annoying.
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