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Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

theguardian.com

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Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#131

Post by tonyedgecombe »

clouddrover wrote: post #117
_ph_ wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric car sales are up in Germany by similar amounts. Completely without any force applied. The same in many European countries.

Car companies must meet the EU fleet emissions standards and the only way most car companies will achieve that is by selling BEVs. Volkswagen and Renault are the top two BEV makers in Europe. Toyota is in a good position with their fleet emissions because they've been selling hybrids for so long. They're not under as much pressure to start selling BEVs in high volumes.

It looks to me that Toyota has thrown away a huge advantage. Thet could have had an early lead with their experience with hybrids.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#132

Post by rhodozelia »

ip26 wrote: post #109
sircastor wrote: post #10

I’ll be interested to see the lifespan of EVs for “normal” people. I’ve got a 2012 Nissan LEAF we bought post-lease in 2015. I love it still, and don’t have any plans to replace it. The battery is not in great shape, but it gets me where I need to go. I am genuinely considering replacing the battery rather than buying another EV when the battery finally fails.

I think it will be really interesting to see what the residual value of the old battery will be. Could be really high- 50% original capacity is a problem for cars but not for grid storage (if the price reflects remaining capacity)

50% capacity for energy storage might be ok for Home gamers but no utility scale project is going to spend all the money on permitting, construction and the rest of the power infrastructure and then get batteries that are beat up.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#133

Post by carlmr »

speedgoose wrote: post #69
angmarsbane wrote: post #17

One thing I keep getting tripped up on with EV cars is the usability during an emergency. I grew up in SoCal when there were rolling black-outs. Just this week, a windstorm took out my parent’s power for 3 days. I don’t view electricity to be as reliable as gas. What fact am I missing that can change my view on this?

That's a very local problem that SoCal needs to work on. I can't remember having a blackout ever in my life, I live in Europe. Just keep your car charged between 50% and 80% when you are at home and it should be enough to reach the hospital or a safe place during a blackout.

It's not a local problem just because it's not a European problem.

Plenty of countries don't have that reliable electricity.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#134

Post by gnicholas »

overscore wrote: post #122
gnicholas wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though probably unwise (and possibly illegal) in many cases.

Where would it be illegal to store petrol? It might be unwise if you live in an apartment, but illegal?

Apparently all over?

> CPSC also warns consumers that private storage of more than a limited amount of gasoline (usually five gallons or less) is illegal in many areas, and subsequent fire damage may not be covered by insurance policies.

from https://www.cpsc.gov/zhT-CN/node/21151

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#135

Post by jjav »

reissbaker wrote: post #46
angmarsbane wrote: post #17

One thing I keep getting tripped up on with EV cars is the usability during an emergency. I grew up in SoCal when there were rolling black-outs. Just this week, a windstorm took out my parent’s power for 3 days. I don’t view electricity to be as reliable as gas. What fact am I missing that can change my view on this?

I have an EV. After I drive it home, I plug it in. Except when I'm lazy, it's basically never below a couple hundred miles of range remaining. Rolling blackouts wouldn't really cause an issue, and when I've experienced blackouts, it's never been a problem. When the power is on, the car would charge back to the limit I set (I usually keep it at 80% charged to preserve the battery, which is still nearly 250 miles of ra…

> And electricity is much cheaper than gas.

Maybe.

When I was commuting, my daily driver gas car got 36 MPG. My commute used 0.72 gallons. At $3.55/gallon, the trip cost $2.56 or about 9.9 cents/mile.

At the same time I had a Fiat 500e. The same commute consumed 11kWh.

So the breakeven point (between my two cars) is $0.24/kWh in electric cost.

Looking at my PG&E bill, peak time (4pm-9pm) cost is $0.35/kWh and part-peak (9pm-midnight) is $0.34/kWh. These are winter time prices, they are much higher in the summer (but I only have my current bill handy).

So if I had to ever charge the electric car during peak or part-peak times, it is quite a bit more expensive than gas.

Now, of course, I only charge it at night (PG&E price $0.17/kWh) so it is a bit cheaper. Just need to be careful to set the timer so charging never starts before midnight.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#136

Post by 0xB31B1B »

ip26 wrote: post #109
sircastor wrote: post #10

I’ll be interested to see the lifespan of EVs for “normal” people. I’ve got a 2012 Nissan LEAF we bought post-lease in 2015. I love it still, and don’t have any plans to replace it. The battery is not in great shape, but it gets me where I need to go. I am genuinely considering replacing the battery rather than buying another EV when the battery finally fails.

I think it will be really interesting to see what the residual value of the old battery will be. Could be really high- 50% original capacity is a problem for cars but not for grid storage (if the price reflects remaining capacity)

80% capacity is EOL for pretty much all batteries. Below that, you start to see issues with output. Its not like a tank of gas where 80% full still means you have 4/5ths of the power of a full tank available to you.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#137

Post by jjav »

ajross wrote: post #45
angmarsbane wrote: post #17

One thing I keep getting tripped up on with EV cars is the usability during an emergency. I grew up in SoCal when there were rolling black-outs. Just this week, a windstorm took out my parent’s power for 3 days. I don’t view electricity to be as reliable as gas. What fact am I missing that can change my view on this?

Can't you just... drive to a charging station? I mean, it's not like the whole continent lost power for three days. Just go fill up and come back and park it at home. Note that with a gas car, you can't fill it up at home ever, for any reason (unless you have a well and refinery I guess).

> Note that with a gas car, you can't fill it up at home ever, for any reason (unless you have a well and refinery I guess).

Or a drum of gasoline and a hand pump which is very practical. If you live anywhere where outages and natural disaster are a thing, it's good to plan ahead.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#138

Post by theshrike79 »

bradlys wrote: post #44
Server6 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unnecessary though. You just plug your car in every night like a cell phone and you have full charge every day. Tesla's supercharger network is plenty fast for long trips and adds a nominal amount of extra time.

> This is unnecessary though. This is presuming you can charge at home. Many of us cannot. Many of us cannot charge at work. Many of us have to rely on gas station like infrastructure for getting any kind of range. (2-3 minute pit-stops to get full range back)

If you can't charge at home, work or at a supermarket near you, then there's really no rush to get an EV.

A PHEV will get you most of the advantages, but it'll actually need more charging than a full EV or it's just an inefficient ICE car.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#139

Post by Xylakant »

perfunctory wrote: post #99
godmode2019 wrote: post #81

'Global sales' I hope everyone understands in China it is very hard to get a licence plate, the government allows you to get a licence plate if you buy a heavily subsidised electric car. The aim is to stimulate demand to develop an industry. Large cities also banned motorbikes and scooters, with the same aim. This is no way market driven demand, BYD is a very interesting company to look into. It is my understanding t…

China is the biggest market indeed. As a counter point though > Sales of BEVs almost tripled in the UK, while those of PHEVs almost doubled, giving the vehicles a combined market share of 10.7%. Other non-plug-in hybrids took 18% of the market, but overall car sales were down 29%. Here is another interesting chart about Germany https://insideevs.com/news/447542/tesla-sales-growth-germany... It's not solely China.

Tesla’s sales in Germany are up ~20%, but on a very low level. Their total market share is now 0.5 percent. It’a definitely encouraging to see growth here, but there’s still a long way to go.

It’s also important to keep in mind that the numbers for electric vehicles often include plug-in hybrids. They’re a neat idea in theory, but in practice, they often serve as a hybrid car and never get plugged in. The gains from those vehicles are somewhat limited, except that they are included in the subsidies for electric cars in Germany.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#140

Post by natch »

ip26 wrote: post #104
natch wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you claiming that EVs don’t have AWD? My car begs to differ. Or...? Sorry I’m not versed on the finer points of 4x4 versus 4WD versus AWD terminology so maybe it’s me that’s confused, feel free to fill me in.

4x4 mechanically locks the front and rear axles together. Valuable vs AWD for driving in very low traction conditions like sand, mud, deep snow. Should not be engaged on dry pavement. AWD dynamically routes power and is always on.

Thanks! I wonder if the “valuable vs AWD” part is updated to reflect what EVs can do vs old fashioned gears-and-transmission AWD.
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