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Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

arstechnica.com

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Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#331

Post by NeutronStar »

cbozeman wrote: post #274
Barrin92 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

his covid comments last year were beyond the pale. The low point for me was when Shannon Woodward, who played a scientist on TV and to my knowledge isn't one, had to explain to him that tests are indeed not a big pharma conspiracy https://twitter.com/shannonwoodward/status/13275176940992757...

LOL, I love it... an actress with no higher education has to explain antigen tests to the world's richest man. We really are in the best possible timeline for general lulz and nonsense.

Who would've thought that an engineer isn't isn't an epidemiologist!

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#332

Post by xedeon »

mrtksn wrote: post #23
granzymes wrote: post #3

drivers came to trust it way too quickly. Drivers who were supposed to be closely monitoring the system instead spent their time looking at their phones, putting on makeup, and other distractions. Really hope no one dies because of Tesla's autopilot. This is a real risk. Quoting from below: if the car does it right 99% of the time it's just human nature to stop paying attention. The article makes a great point that s…

People die all the time, there are even higher profile cases like the Apple Engineer who slammed in the barriers at full speed: https://www.kqed.org/news/11801138/apple-engineer-killed-in-... There are some spectacular failures that are very scary because the car does something that a person would never do, unless unconscious, like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfmAG4dk-rU You don't hear much about it pro…

That "Apple Engineer" was playing a video game on this cellphone according to NHTSA. But it's "rabid Tesla fans" you say?

https://www.kqed.org/news/11803406/apple-engineer-killed-in-...

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#333

Post by xedeon »

judge2020 wrote: post #272
sixQuarks wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When has someone died while sleeping in an autopiloted Tesla? I've kept a close eye on this space and never heard of this.

There are six cases of death where autopilot was confirmed to be engaged at the time of the incident, with 15 total that claim AP was engaged but had not been proven (via post-crash analysis or otherwise). https://www.tesladeaths.com/ Based on reviewing the articles linked to the data, only one includes a lawsuit that claims the driver fell asleep before the crash. Doing this would either require a weight on the whee…

I would advice you look into who actually runs tesladeaths.com and make up your own conclusion.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#334

Post by froh »

01100011 wrote: post #313
ra7 wrote: post #26

I think the FSD beta rollout is completely irresponsible from Tesla. Rolling out a clearly half-baked safety critical technology to its customers (yes, I know it's only a few beta testers) who are untrained is nothing but a tactic to generate hype and get more customers to buy that $10k FSD package. This is on top of Tesla being the least transparent company out there in reporting safety data or their testing methodo…

Telsa will be very transparent when the first round of lawsuits begins and they're facing multi-billion dollar lawsuits. Toyota lost billions from simply not following accepted safety design practices. Does anyone really think Tesla's self-driving tech is ISO26262 or MISRA compliant?

No it's is IEC61508 compliant.

IEC61508-7 F is giving an example how to come from test hours to a quality and safety statement, in terms of failure in time rates.

With how many, 700.000 morning and evening commutes, tesla is gathering evidence pretty quickly that their vehicles save more lives than they kill due to those rare FSD faults which lead to fatal failures.

Air bags kill people. Always have, always will. Fully misra and 26262 compliant. And air bags save many more people.

Tesla FSD will come, fully validated and fully standard compliant, so will Waymo (I doubt they go with misra).

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#335

Post by spicybright »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #214
gkoberger wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm I don't want to defend Tesla, but I do want to push back on this a bit! Facebook made "move fast and break things" famous, which was Zuckerberg's way of presenting a tradeoff. Everyone company says they want to move fast, but Zuckerberg made it clear that the company should care more about velocity than stability. I don't believe that's Tesla's attitude. Rather, I think their attitude is more "move fast and ignor…

But things have literally broken.

You have to kill a few people to make an omelette, as they say.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#336

Post by bcrosby95 »

Animats wrote: post #168
jiofih wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of trusting this anecdote, why don’t you jump over to YouTube and search for “Tesla FSD” to see what it really looks like? Lots of very instructive videos available from people on the beta program.

Yes. Check out this one.[1] Watch the display for what it sees and isn't seeing. Awareness of oncoming traffic is almost nonexistent. Except when the FedEx truck is reflected in some windows; then it detects the reflection as a vehicle. Although the streets are almost empty, the driver takes over frequently. This is way below what Waymo and Cruise can do. [1] https://youtu.be/6G1Z2J3WUSg?t=231

"It decides to go in the opposite lane. That is not ideal."

Twice in a row. At two different left turns. Yeah, not ideal.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#337

Post by sudosysgen »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #309
ra7 wrote: post #26

I think the FSD beta rollout is completely irresponsible from Tesla. Rolling out a clearly half-baked safety critical technology to its customers (yes, I know it's only a few beta testers) who are untrained is nothing but a tactic to generate hype and get more customers to buy that $10k FSD package. This is on top of Tesla being the least transparent company out there in reporting safety data or their testing methodo…

What I wonder is would countries like China be able to reach FSD faster since they would possibly be less ethically bound? And similarly with other tech which otherwise would be limited ethically?

IIRC so far China doesn't seem to be doing anything like Tesla, most things I've seen were testing in a closed zone with an engineer, Waymo-style.

They also don't have any self-driving deaths for now, unless I missed something.

I thus don't think they will have this advantage. They might have the advantage of more chaotic traffic?

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#338

Post by _ph_ »

Animats wrote: post #168
jiofih wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of trusting this anecdote, why don’t you jump over to YouTube and search for “Tesla FSD” to see what it really looks like? Lots of very instructive videos available from people on the beta program.

Yes. Check out this one.[1] Watch the display for what it sees and isn't seeing. Awareness of oncoming traffic is almost nonexistent. Except when the FedEx truck is reflected in some windows; then it detects the reflection as a vehicle. Although the streets are almost empty, the driver takes over frequently. This is way below what Waymo and Cruise can do. [1] https://youtu.be/6G1Z2J3WUSg?t=231

Look closer. The oncoming traffic is detected, just the visualization on the dashboard screen in a bright yellow is difficult to mark out in the video.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#339

Post by dheera »

threeseed wrote: post #157
meekrohprocess wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have one question for Tesla customers who trust the company to deliver full FSD. How do you reconcile that belief with the fact that Tesla's embedded developers did not understand the extremely simple concept of write endurance? The NHTSA opened an investigation into premature HUD failures because they prevented the backup cameras from working. But the fact of the matter is, the company used a small partition of in…

> Tesla's embedded developers did not understand the extremely simple concept of write endurance Equally likely is that they do understand but just don't care. From all accounts, Tesla seems to have a culture of move fast and break things.

A lot of this also stems from a culture of quarterly earnings reports and idiotic "fiduciary" duty to some shareholders instead of the primary duty being to customers and humanity.

The incentives are fundamentally defined in the wrong way, and the system has just optimized itself for the those incentives.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#340

Post by na85 »

meekrohprocess wrote: post #151
ra7 wrote: post #26

I think the FSD beta rollout is completely irresponsible from Tesla. Rolling out a clearly half-baked safety critical technology to its customers (yes, I know it's only a few beta testers) who are untrained is nothing but a tactic to generate hype and get more customers to buy that $10k FSD package. This is on top of Tesla being the least transparent company out there in reporting safety data or their testing methodo…

I have one question for Tesla customers who trust the company to deliver full FSD. How do you reconcile that belief with the fact that Tesla's embedded developers did not understand the extremely simple concept of write endurance? The NHTSA opened an investigation into premature HUD failures because they prevented the backup cameras from working. But the fact of the matter is, the company used a small partition of in…

>You're also entrusting my life, and those of my family, to them. But we'll gloss over that, because it's expensive not to.

This is my biggest concern. I'm going to get killed by some jackass' tesla while he's texting, because Elon Musk is a megalomaniac.

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