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Inmates forced to farm gold online in Chinese prisons

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Re: Inmates forced to farm gold online in Chinese prisons

#21

Post by rdtsc »

ck2 wrote: post #3

How about the hundreds of thousands of prisoners in the US forced to work for pennies per hour? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison%E2%80%93industrial_compl... If they refuse, they are written up as uncooperative and it could affect privileges, parole, etc. Makes many millions in profit for the states and federal government, even some judges own stock. Ironically it's the only labor in the US that can compete with of…

> If they refuse, they are written up as uncooperative and it could affect privileges, parole, etc.

Very interesting, I did not know about that aspect and in the back of my mind always wondered why do all these prisoners even work when it pays that little. Why not just do nothing?

Somehow I thought it was because of boredom and just something to do, be a part of something, but I guess a system that punishes the slaves (erm...I mean prisoners...) for not working is obviously a lot more effective.

Re: Inmates forced to farm gold online in Chinese prisons

#23

Post by yummyfajitas »

ck2 wrote: post #13
tseabrooks wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? We should give a damn about this? You've got to be kidding me. Lots of money gets spent every year on inmates in the U.S. Is your complaint that you think people are being incarcerated when they've committed no crimes in order to have cheap labor? I find this notion pretty ridiculous considering you need a trial and jurors to convict someone. Is your complaint that you think the laws are being created to s…

At some point in this decade they will hit 1 out of every 100 people are in prison in the US. If you don't think there is something seriously wrong with that percentage and how two decades ago it was a fraction of that number, then you are far too trusting, isolated or innocent to the world. Felony laws and prison sentences are made much harsher based on heavy lobbying.

You realize that the number of people in jail and prison labor are orthogonal issues, right?

One can both oppose our war on drug users (near as I can tell, the main source of our excess prisoners) and China's war on the Falun Gong, but also have no objection to forcing robbers/rapists/murderers to work for their keep.

Re: Inmates forced to farm gold online in Chinese prisons

#24

Post by sorbus »

ck2 wrote: post #13
tseabrooks wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? We should give a damn about this? You've got to be kidding me. Lots of money gets spent every year on inmates in the U.S. Is your complaint that you think people are being incarcerated when they've committed no crimes in order to have cheap labor? I find this notion pretty ridiculous considering you need a trial and jurors to convict someone. Is your complaint that you think the laws are being created to s…

At some point in this decade they will hit 1 out of every 100 people are in prison in the US. If you don't think there is something seriously wrong with that percentage and how two decades ago it was a fraction of that number, then you are far too trusting, isolated or innocent to the world. Felony laws and prison sentences are made much harsher based on heavy lobbying.

As of 2009, it was 0.743%. In 1999, it was around 0.7%, and in 1989 it was 0.426%. So expecting it to hit 1% sometime this decade might be a stretch, unless the trends accelerate - it seems that the rate of increase is leveling off a bit, and hitting 1% by 2020 would be a greater increase in the next 9 years than occurred over the previous 20 (in 1991 it was just under 0.5%).

Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rat...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Incarceration_Rate_in_the_...

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/07/us/us-has-highest-rate-of-...

Re: Inmates forced to farm gold online in Chinese prisons

#25

Post by w1ntermute »

ck2 wrote: post #11
teyc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true. In US, it is the chain gang.

Actually, Arizona still has real chain gangs and other states had them as recently as the mid-90's.

> Arizona still has real chain gangs

It's only in one county (Maricopa), and it's voluntary.

Re: Inmates forced to farm gold online in Chinese prisons

#26

Post by ugh »

rdtsc wrote: post #21
ck2 wrote: post #3

How about the hundreds of thousands of prisoners in the US forced to work for pennies per hour? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison%E2%80%93industrial_compl... If they refuse, they are written up as uncooperative and it could affect privileges, parole, etc. Makes many millions in profit for the states and federal government, even some judges own stock. Ironically it's the only labor in the US that can compete with of…

> If they refuse, they are written up as uncooperative and it could affect privileges, parole, etc. Very interesting, I did not know about that aspect and in the back of my mind always wondered why do all these prisoners even work when it pays that little. Why not just do nothing? Somehow I thought it was because of boredom and just something to do, be a part of something, but I guess a system that punishes the slave…

You’ve got that slavery part right. Here is the Thirteenth Amendment, Section 1: “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”

This led, for example, courts to conclude that prisoners have no right to be payed minimum wage. (I honestly don’t really know what to think about that. I’m not sure whether I have a problem with that.)

Re: Inmates forced to farm gold online in Chinese prisons

#28

Post by barrkel »

ugh wrote: post #26
rdtsc wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they refuse, they are written up as uncooperative and it could affect privileges, parole, etc. Very interesting, I did not know about that aspect and in the back of my mind always wondered why do all these prisoners even work when it pays that little. Why not just do nothing? Somehow I thought it was because of boredom and just something to do, be a part of something, but I guess a system that punishes the slave…

You’ve got that slavery part right. Here is the Thirteenth Amendment, Section 1: “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.” This led, for example, courts to conclude that prisoners have no right to be payed minimum wage. (I honestly don’t really know wh…

Consider your position if you were mistakenly convicted of a crime and incarcerated yourself. Would you have a problem with it then?

Re: Inmates forced to farm gold online in Chinese prisons

#29

Post by barrkel »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #23
ck2 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point in this decade they will hit 1 out of every 100 people are in prison in the US. If you don't think there is something seriously wrong with that percentage and how two decades ago it was a fraction of that number, then you are far too trusting, isolated or innocent to the world. Felony laws and prison sentences are made much harsher based on heavy lobbying.

You realize that the number of people in jail and prison labor are orthogonal issues, right? One can both oppose our war on drug users (near as I can tell, the main source of our excess prisoners) and China's war on the Falun Gong, but also have no objection to forcing robbers/rapists/murderers to work for their keep.

They are most certainly not. Presumably the base rate of bad people in the human population does not vary greatly from country to country, yet the rate of jailed people does. It follows that many people in jail in countries with a high rate of incarceration arguably ought not be there; and making life harder for them is wrong.

Or to put it another way, arguing from justice, along the lines of Rawls' original position and veil of ignorance[1]. If you didn't know whether or not you were to end up a prisoner, you ought to have some concern about how they are treated; and your concern should logically follow in direct proportion to how many of them are imprisoned.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil_of_ignorance

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