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18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

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Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#31
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably once the testing positivity rate is well below 1%, things may return to normal. I'll be curious what criteria are used.

Doesn’t seem like that condition leads to termination. As things return to normal, fewer surveillance tests will be conducted by definition, so the test positivity rate will rise.

In BC we've learned that we need to distinguish between the positivity rate for "testing due to symptoms or known exposure" and "testing for screening" (e.g. the film industry tests all their crew daily). The former positivity rate is much higher, but the latter may be more useful as a long-term trendline to follow.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#32
post #9

Can someone help me understand the difference between this and other vaccines? From what I know, the COVID-19 vaccine is only effective in reducing symptoms for those who get inoculated. Is it accurate to say this vaccine does not prevent infection or help develop an immunity? I just do not understand how vaccines work. Would love a (peer-reviewed) source or sources I could read to brush up. This is not a political o…

> From what I know, the COVID-19 vaccine is only effective in reducing symptoms for those who get inoculated. Is it accurate to say this vaccine does not prevent infection or help develop an immunity?

These statements are not accurate, but I think that there may be a misunderstanding with the discussion of whether the vaccine prevents symptomatic spreading.

First, to the second part of your statement, no vaccine really "prevents" infection. A vaccine primes the immune system to fight an infection, but the immune system typically only recognizes the attack once at least some cells have been infected and start producing more viruses.

However, being vaccinated typically means that your body will wipe out the virus before it has a chance to take hold and make you sick. But this doesn't mean it is just "reducing symptoms" the way, say, Sudafed reduces nasal congestion without attacking the cold -- being vaccinated really does mean that your body's defenses are armed to fight and destroy the virus the moment it invades. So it's completely wrong to say it simply "reduces symptoms."

What I think you're confusing this with is that scientists are saying that there is still a chance that you can become infected and become an asymptomatic spreader, even if you don't get sick.

The scientists aren't quite sure if this is the case or not, because it wasn't measured in the large vaccine trials. It's very likely that the vaccine at least reduces your ability to spread the virus, if not completely eliminates it, because that's the way most vaccines work. However, the reason the question is still unknown because certain respiratory diseases can still be spread after vaccination, because those viruses can sometimes replicate within the mucosal tissues in the nose, "hiding" from the body's main immune system.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#33
post #29
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When children are vaccinated. It's not clear if the vaccine confers sterilizing immunity, i.e., you are protected against the bug and also can't spread the disease, so most people who have children or are around children will ideally not take undue risks. I'm not sure if under-16 cohorts' trials are underway already. If they are, and if children are going to be vaccinated before their next school term starts, then so…

Children are almost immune from the virus. Everyone below 40 is also extremely extremely unlikely to die from the virus, just to a lesser extent.

You might want to update. There were two studies out of Europe last week stating that children are just as likely to get the virus as adults.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#34
post #9

Can someone help me understand the difference between this and other vaccines? From what I know, the COVID-19 vaccine is only effective in reducing symptoms for those who get inoculated. Is it accurate to say this vaccine does not prevent infection or help develop an immunity? I just do not understand how vaccines work. Would love a (peer-reviewed) source or sources I could read to brush up. This is not a political o…

All any vaccine does is greatly decrease r naught in a population. No vaccine confers true immunity of an individual when exposed to high viral load.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#35
post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

According to this yahoo article about 65 - 70% of the population needs to be vaccinated until we can get back to normal. That said there still may be mutations or other complicating factors that could throw a wrench in things. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/around-65-75-of-the-populatio...

Immunized, not vaccinated. In particular, patients who have recovered from COVID-19 are (mostly) immune and count towards "herd immunity".

(Obviously vaccination is by far the preferable of those two options!)

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#36
post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

It's not clear yet if arm injected vaccines will provide mucosal immunity. They'll prevent serious disease but epithelial cells in the nose, mouth, and so on can still be infected and shed virus. It's the same for flu vaccines. There are nasal vaccines which do provide mucosal immunity like flumist but during heavy flu seasons only the old and young have access. So, even if you're the required 2 months post vaccinate…

I have been downvoted elsewhere in this thread for saying that it's not clear whether the vaccine confers sterilizing immunity (or perhaps, for suggesting that restrictions will continue until children are vaccinated. Who knows!) Be careful what you say here, lest you get downvoted to oblivion!

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#37
post #22

I had a bit of a frustrating experience getting my elderly parents signed up for a jab today. They are patients of a local hospital conglomerate. (I realize that’s typical in the States, Kaiser et al., but I’ve been living in Ontario, where you’re not wedded to some particular chain.) The hospital system said they’d notify patients who qualify, which both of my parents do, in spades. Dad was just in the ICU, during t…

Kaiser is one of the good ones, too. How can it be worse? Well, you can not have insurance, but you already knew that one. You can have an insurance company that's poorly integrated with providers, resulting in "edge cases" that somehow always involve you paying more. A lot more. Here's the one affecting me, though: insurance companies use pricing to ensure that my employer picks a new plan every year, which always h…

> Here's the one affecting me: insurance companies use pricing to ensure that my employer picks a new plan every year, which always has an extremely decrepit sign-up process every year, which no doubt shakes some fraction of the workforce from going through it at all.

That's probably not the insurer’s intent, since it's in their interest to have the most people possible enrolled.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#38
post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

No one is quite sure but we're a LONG way from it.. and that's without addressing the fear/trauma that's been inflicted on otherwise healthy+exceptionally low risk people.

From a month ago:

Dr. Anthony Fauci now says as much as 90 percent of the population may need to get vaccinated or infected to achieve herd immunity against COVID-19 — admitting in a new interview that he has been intentionally raising the bar based, in part, on what he thinks the country is ready to hear.

“We really don’t know what the real number is,” the nation’s top infectious disease expert told the New York Times.

“I think the real range is somewhere between 70 to 90 percent. But, I’m not going to say 90 percent.”

Ref: https://nypost.com/2020/12/24/fauci-covid-herd-immunity-requ...

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#39
post #29
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When children are vaccinated. It's not clear if the vaccine confers sterilizing immunity, i.e., you are protected against the bug and also can't spread the disease, so most people who have children or are around children will ideally not take undue risks. I'm not sure if under-16 cohorts' trials are underway already. If they are, and if children are going to be vaccinated before their next school term starts, then so…

Children are almost immune from the virus. Everyone below 40 is also extremely extremely unlikely to die from the virus, just to a lesser extent.

No one will pay the political price of causing infections among children by reopening rapidly. And I'd like to believe that as a society, we are cautious about letting children be infected with a novel disease whose long-term effects are unknown.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#40
post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

A lot of Americans have already stopped complying with public health recommendations. Or they never put on a mask to begin with. It's like a teacher who tells a class to line up so they can be dismissed but someone doesn't go along and drags out the whole process.

One might reasonably believe that clearly defined exit criteria might boost compliance if chosen carefully with community input. I can see the other side of things. In my opinion we are doing a very poor job of meeting people’s needs.
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