Lack of sleep, stress can lead to symptoms resembling concussion • Hacker News Board

Re: Lack of sleep, stress can lead to symptoms resembling concussion

#121

Post by ivansavz » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 2:46 AM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #16

raghuveerdotnet wrote: post #3

Stress resilience is one of the most important things when it comes to knowledge work, also one of the most neglected aspect. Mindfulness, stoicism, exercise help, but nothing helps as much as a good night sleep. Also the other thing people usually fail to note is the vicious stress-sleep cycle (lack of sleep induced stress stress induced lack of sleep). It took me years to realize that so much of my problems with be…

During a very difficult time in my life recently, I found it impossible to sleep. I would have stress nightmares and even when i did fall asleep, I would soon wake myself up with specific scenarios my mind was trying to work out. I was incapacitated by this, which exacerbated my situation. I eventually noticed that I could fall asleep if I sat with my daughters while they watched TV. This evolved to me falling asleep…

I use a similar approach, but instead of TV, I use the build-in text to speech tool of Mac OS X (you can set up a keyboard shortcut[1] and then select any text and computer will read to you). I choose usually a longish-article, or sometimes a HN comments thread, and then a few minutes in I've dozed off.

It's a little tricky to choose the right length (i.e. not being awake enough to notice when it ends, but also not too long so it reads to me for hours).

I'm not sure if this is healthy... It works for me as a source of entertainment, but I can fall asleep without this too. I've heard that bringing a computer into the bedroom is definitely something not recommended for anyone seeking work-life balance.

[1] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mApa60zJA8rgEm6T6GF0yIem...

Re: Lack of sleep, stress can lead to symptoms resembling concussion

#122

Post by stephen_g » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 3:10 AM UTC

markc wrote: post #86

sandstrom wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The science behind "inflammatory foods" is pretty shaky: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-messy-facts-a... https://www.acsh.org/news/2019/05/05/closer-look-anti-inflam...

Interesting. I've been interested in anti-inflammation unrelated to the sleep stuff. Sad if there's not much to it, since it seemed like a hopeful no-drugs way of improving health.

I think there is still quite a bit to diet - especially in relation to gut bacteria. There are plenty of studies showing Mediterranean diets improving gut bacteria diversity and also people on it tending to be more likely to have better sleep, so I think it might be more to do with the gut bacteria that than the specific ‘anti-inflammatory’ properties of foods (which probably aren’t much of an issue unless you are specifically trying to help manage something like an existing autoimmune disease).

A book I just read (Fast Asleep by Michael Mosely) recommended that kind of diet, but said apparently some studies showed that being even a bit overweight can reduce or even eliminate the improvement, so that is one thing to tackle first if that’s an issue. Other ones were a big emphasis on managing stress, and suggestion to try intermittent fasting (even just limiting all eating to 12 hours apparently can help, but some people limit all food to 8 hours and then fast for 16).

Trying to ensure that you get a bit of outdoor light exposure, and as early as possible is apparently good too, and I think it’s helping me. I just wake up and sit by the window for 20 minutes.

I’m also interested in trying doing a 72 hour fast (just drinking plenty of water taking a bit of electrolyte supplement) three or four times a year which apparently is good for gut bacteria, immune moderation etc. but people should have a chat to a doctor about doing it safely. I’m specifically interested in autoimmune disease because I have psoriatic arthritis, which is almost 100% managed by immunosuppressant but I’m interested in seeing if I can reduce my dose (working with the rheumatologist, not by myself!) but I’ve always been terrible at sleep and am trying to improve that as well (since that can help manage my condition too).

Re: Lack of sleep, stress can lead to symptoms resembling concussion

#123

Post by markc » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 3:26 AM UTC

e40 wrote: post #88

markc wrote: post #70

I wake up after about 4.5 hours of sleep "no matter what". Bedtime of 10pm or 2am, exercise or no, light exposure or no, late eating or no - always the same result. Then I'm awake for a few hours, then get my "second sleep" of 1 to 2 hours. I've been going like this for a decade without daytime sleepiness (a few oz of coffee and I'm charged up for the day), but these kinds of articles really worry me. I have light sl…

Dude, this is exactly me. Same age. 4.5 hours. Read for a while. 1-2 hours more. Just this morning, I think I finally diagnosed my central sleep apnea. I was laying there and just as I fell asleep I started awake because I wasn't breathing. My diary has notes about this happening all the way back to last March. This happened to me after my first sleep. To add to that, I've become hyper-sensitive to caffeine. It cause…

>just as I fell asleep I started awake because I wasn't breathing.

Uncanny. Me too. Also tried every airflow device I could find (breathe right, nose baffles, chin strap, and many more) to no avail.

CPAP was a total fail because if the pressure is turned up high enough to defeat my resistance, it just fills my stomach with air (called aerophagia, a common CPAP problem). I'm starting to think the only solution is one of those implanted breathing pacemakers but that freaks me out.

Btw, I also had palpitations! I'd wake up with them really bad, probably from not breathing. Going off caffeine doesn't help though. A beta-blocker (6 years now) works wonders. HOWEVER! I just saw a study yesterday that people can have insomnia from beta blockers, and that 2.5mg melatonin helps counteract it. Round and round!

Re: Lack of sleep, stress can lead to symptoms resembling concussion

#124

Post by markc » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 3:34 AM UTC

stephen_g wrote: post #122

markc wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I've been interested in anti-inflammation unrelated to the sleep stuff. Sad if there's not much to it, since it seemed like a hopeful no-drugs way of improving health.

I think there is still quite a bit to diet - especially in relation to gut bacteria. There are plenty of studies showing Mediterranean diets improving gut bacteria diversity and also people on it tending to be more likely to have better sleep, so I think it might be more to do with the gut bacteria that than the specific ‘anti-inflammatory’ properties of foods (which probably aren’t much of an issue unless you are sp…

Thanks for the reply! I know I'm not hydrating enough, getting enough sun early, or exercising, so I'm going to give those a go! I've only ever half-assed the intermittent fasting thing, so maybe I'll give that a real try too.

I think my gut bacteria is pretty good. I'm a nut for fermented stuff, make my own yoghurt, kimchi, saurkraut, kombucha - and eat it all the time. It has been really fantastic for digestion, which had been a problem (pain, irregularity) and now is great. Since starting yoghurt every single day I have a freakin' Iron Stomach. I have zero autoimmunity issues fortunately (knock on wood).

Re: Lack of sleep, stress can lead to symptoms resembling concussion

#125

Post by waihtis » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 5:01 AM UTC

yowlingcat wrote: post #110

waihtis wrote: post #10

I had great success picking up a consistent meditation habit with the greasing the groove-approach[1].. in essence, every time I would feel a bit foggy in the head, I would take a 3-15 minute meditation session. It usually results to 3-5 sessions per day. It's such a great mental reset, and I haven't since experienced the kind of complete depletion that you get from pushing yourself hard through the day. I bet some Z…

> [1] refers to the method of increasing your pull-up capability by installing a pull-up bar in your office / bedroom doorway and doing a set every time you pass through the doorway Happy to see this concept references here!! I've started thinking about a lot more things in my life in terms of greasing the groove, IE: how can I make the healthy things convenient and the unhealthy things inconvenient? I want to be laz…

It's a very powerful concept, since it teaches you to become very comfortable with starting things.

I often employ it in work too, picking one of the most minor thing I have on the to-do while having morning coffee and three hours later realize I have been grinding away non-stop.

Re: Lack of sleep, stress can lead to symptoms resembling concussion

#126

Post by Foivos » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 10:15 AM UTC

kzrdude wrote: post #23

Ericson2314 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Exercise, not too late in the day. - Do not eat or drink anything but water at least 3 hours before when you are going to bed. - Do not have screens in the bedroom. - No screens 1 hour before before bed. (That last one I utterly fail at, but I am mainly doing textual things not from an attention-economy leach on the screen so, and it works out. Either the other 3 is enough or that screen time is sufficiently less s…

Excercise is maybe the most important, but it's hard when it's cold outside (and gyms are shut) :) I've figured lately that working "hard" at chores at home can replace some of it, the point is to not be too lazy.

Lately, I am using exercise video games, such as "ringfit adventure" and "fitness boxing", with very good results.

Re: Lack of sleep, stress can lead to symptoms resembling concussion

#127

Post by dudeman13 » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 7:26 PM UTC

xyzelement wrote: post #63

dudeman13 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very best way of dealing with stress isn't internal, it is making the source of stress go away. Unless the internal changes fundamentally change how you view the world ( i.e. the source of stress no longer causes stress, which is the kind of change you'll very rarely see in adults ) it will only be a paliative measure. Being better able to cope with crap is useful, but I don't think it can be considered solving t…

I couldn't disagree with you more, fortunately. You can never remove all stressors but you have way more control over your reaction than you think. One example - people's natural emotional reaction to work deadlines is something like "I'll die if I don't make it" which is almost never literally true, but your body and mind torment you as if it was. Everyone can learn to reframe it to something more healthy like "I am…

Uh, must be a cultural abyss here.

When someone says they are under a lot of stress, I take it as they work 70 hours weeks, or they found out they'll be a cripple or people they love are dying, or the chance that you'll be stabbed when going to work is quite high.

Never crossed my mind that enough people are under heavy stress by the examples you gave.

Re: Lack of sleep, stress can lead to symptoms resembling concussion

#128

Post by TheJurgen » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 7:37 PM UTC

The thing about stress is that it can creep up on you. It’s easy to develop resilience debt. Tracking things like HRV, heart rate at sleep, respiratory rate and heart rate at rest help identify early warning signs of stress before they manifest into actual stress. Exercising regularly and eating right helps of course but most people don’t actually know what a good exercise should feel or what reaction a meal has in their body.

Personal anecdote, when I’m getting more stressed I start getting a heart spike at sleep. I’ve tried ignoring it and it turns into anxiousness and stress.

Re: Lack of sleep, stress can lead to symptoms resembling concussion

#129

Post by notacoward » Tue, Jan 26, 2021, 12:18 AM UTC

raghuveerdotnet wrote: post #3

Stress resilience is one of the most important things when it comes to knowledge work, also one of the most neglected aspect. Mindfulness, stoicism, exercise help, but nothing helps as much as a good night sleep. Also the other thing people usually fail to note is the vicious stress-sleep cycle (lack of sleep induced stress stress induced lack of sleep). It took me years to realize that so much of my problems with be…

> nothing helps as much as a good night sleep

...so of course a lot of tech companies absolutely wreck their employees' sleep habits with crunch times, oncall requirements, notifications around the clock, etc.

Re: Lack of sleep, stress can lead to symptoms resembling concussion

#130

Post by baby » Tue, Jan 26, 2021, 8:20 AM UTC

gkop wrote: post #115

baby wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two things that work great with me: smoking weed & wearing a sleeping mask (a bit of light can really fuck w/ my sleep and for some reasons no US apartments seems to have real blinds).

Weed is a fairly heavy-handed solution IMO. It’s likely to help with insomnia, but also to have significant side effects. Many people enjoy some of the side effects, which is great. But many do not, which makes it hard to recommend generally for insomnia.

I usually just smoke one puff and it doesn’t have strong effects. I’m sure this would be more effective in general compared to pills, so I don’t agree that we should dismiss this advice based on “oh it’s drugs”.