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I wouldn't invest in open-source companies, even though I ran one

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Re: I wouldn't invest in open-source companies, even though I ran one

#21
post #5

This is unusually insightful for a LinkedIn post. One question, though: towards the end, it suggests that GPL/AGPL products, which are more defensible against commercial competitors who simply resell the open source project, are "legally murky" and might be rejected by customer legal teams. But does that matter? Can't you just do what Sleepycat did, and offer commercial customers a clean commercial license?

> One question, though: towards the end, it suggests that GPL/AGPL products, which are more defensible against commercial competitors who simply resell the open source project, are "legally murky" and might be rejected by customer legal teams. But does that matter? Can't you just do what Sleepycat did, and offer commercial customers a clean commercial license?

It isn't an issue of "clean"; GPL/AGPL aren't "legally murky". (Though if a customer is willing to pay you because they think otherwise, by all means.) But if they're "rejected by customer legal teams", that's an opportunity to sell an alternative license or exception. I've collaborated with the legal teams at various companies that review both inbound and outbound FOSS. Inbound, there's no open legal question with GPL-family licenses; they're only "rejected" in cases where they're functioning as intended and that isn't desired. (That includes companies that systematically reject AGPL; they're concerned about the license working as intended.) Outbound, the pressure to not use GPL-family licenses when a choice is available doesn't come from the legal department; it comes from product teams who don't seriously consider copyleft and what benefit they might gain from using it, because all the other teams they see are using Apache or MIT or BSD. And then those same teams become shocked when their own code is used to compete with them.

There's a strong tendency towards "do what other people are doing", and there are a lot of companies releasing permissively licensed code. This seems self-defeating.

Re: I wouldn't invest in open-source companies, even though I ran one

#22

I always see FOSS to get super fast traction (Elastic) and userbase - hey, because its free - and then later the same people complain that their lunch got stolen. Elastic could have grown (or not) organically with closed source software but that's hard without community help and being able to hire top developers to build your product. FOSS seems like a great way to market/PR your name out there because free is popula…

Algolia is doing just fine. Open source contributions by volunteers are typically very small compared to the work done by the corporations behind the open source projects. At least for the vast majority of projects.

Re: I wouldn't invest in open-source companies, even though I ran one

#23
post #11
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft spent a lot of money and energy in the late 90s and 00s to convince the world - especially business and legal people - that the GPL was a "cancer" The GPL is one of the cleanest licenses out there. Use the code in your project, give the source of your project to anyone you give the binaries to, job done.

I mean, I agree, but isn't it a moot point? Isn't part of the reason you get all your contributors to sign CLAs so that you can put whatever license on your product you need to close a deal?

> Isn't part of the reason you get all your contributors to sign CLAs so that you can put whatever license on your product you need to close a deal?

This is true if you use a CLA, but that's going to reduce external contributions. In some cases you may not care about that.

Re: I wouldn't invest in open-source companies, even though I ran one

#26

I always see FOSS to get super fast traction (Elastic) and userbase - hey, because its free - and then later the same people complain that their lunch got stolen. Elastic could have grown (or not) organically with closed source software but that's hard without community help and being able to hire top developers to build your product. FOSS seems like a great way to market/PR your name out there because free is popula…

Algolia is doing just fine. Open source contributions by volunteers are typically very small compared to the work done by the corporations behind the open source projects. At least for the vast majority of projects.

I actually love Algolia. They know they're good and they charge a pretty penny for it. Excellent.

Re: I wouldn't invest in open-source companies, even though I ran one

#27
I'm working on an "open core" knowledge base [0] right now and have been for the last few years. We're definitely leaving money on the table by offering an easy docker install option and I'd largely agree with the points made in the article but it's hard to understate the value of the distribution that open source brings, particularly for product-lead teams that aren't so hot at marketing.

[0] https://www.getoutline.com

Re: I wouldn't invest in open-source companies, even though I ran one

#28
post #12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft spent a lot of money and energy in the late 90s and 00s to convince the world - especially business and legal people - that the GPL was a "cancer" The GPL is one of the cleanest licenses out there. Use the code in your project, give the source of your project to anyone you give the binaries to, job done.

All we would need to do is rename the GPL to something else. That’s it. It really is that dumb. Just don’t tell anyone it’s a renamed GPL and maybe rearrange some wording. We abandoned GPL for the BSL for this reason. The GPL is in many ways better but there are a ton of companies that won’t touch it or anything that comes near it... though they tend to grandfather in Linux.

Smart companies use a whitelist of licenses.

Re: I wouldn't invest in open-source companies, even though I ran one

#29

I'm working on an open-core product [0] right now, and an aspect I find missing in the article is that you can generate trust by showing how the internals work. This is especially beneficial if you work in an area like us. Of course, you need to make sure your license is set right and you need to think about where new features go, but it's a valid use-case. [0] https://pirsch.io/ open-source core: https://github.com/…

What license do you use?

Re: I wouldn't invest in open-source companies, even though I ran one

#30

I'm working on an open-core product [0] right now, and an aspect I find missing in the article is that you can generate trust by showing how the internals work. This is especially beneficial if you work in an area like us. Of course, you need to make sure your license is set right and you need to think about where new features go, but it's a valid use-case. [0] https://pirsch.io/ open-source core: https://github.com/…

What license do you use?

AGPL
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