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How Homogeneous Is Japan?

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Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#181

Post by Blikkentrekker »

travmatt wrote: post #180
Blikkentrekker wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know expat Jamaican and Dominican communities in New York that celebrate festivals yearly. And I would not call those Anglo-Saxon as they are actual expats of a different ethnicity and recent-generation immigrants? That you even consider those comparable to Anglo-Saxon African-Americans that are not recent immigrants but have lived in the U.S.A.. from six generations back is baffling to me. > nor is the creole la…

I’m telling you that black people in America have a culture that is descended from a lot of sources, and you cannot just simplify it as Anglo-Saxon, again because such a wide swath comes from the African diaspora that ignoring that means ignoring its most noticeable aspects. Gospel, jazz, blues, and rap are not descended from any Anglo-Saxon musical tradition, nor are our dances, or many of our foods. American cultur…

> I’m telling you that black people in America have a culture that is descended from a lot of sources, and you cannot just simplify it as Anglo-Saxon, again because such a wide swath comes from the African diaspora that ignoring that means ignoring its most noticeable aspects. Gospel, jazz, blues, and rap are not descended from any Anglo-Saxon musical tradition, nor are our dances, or many of our foods.

I looked up the origin of Gospel on Wikipedia; it seems to stem from Gaelic sources and the first composers thereof were white.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_music#History

As for Jazz: “Jazz originated in the late-19th to early-20th century as interpretations of American and European classical music entwined with African and slave folk songs and the influences of West African culture.[32] Its composition and style have changed many times throughout the years with each performer's personal interpretation and improvisation, which is also one of the greatest appeals of the genre.”

Perhaps there are some West-African elements to it, but I find the music to sound very European in terms of structure, also using mostly European instruments.

Jazz at the end of the day is played with the piano, the European drum kit characterized by the cymbal, the guitar, the cello, and the tuba. — whatever West-African elements it has seem to be played up, again for racial reasons.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#182

Post by lesderid »

cainxinth wrote: post #74
xorfish wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the reason for that is, that Switzerland has a really difficult naturalisation process and is a smaller country. If all humans migrate a similar distance on average, you would expect that a smaller country that is surrounded by other countries to have a higher proportion of immigrants. Notice that for Switzerland, you need to use the term non-citizens and can't use the term immigrant. That is because a good…

Switzerland is also what I call (non-pejoratively) an amalgam country. It’s a got a lot of German and Italian influences. Just like Belgium, which is a mix of French, German, and Dutch cultures.

AFAIK, Switzerland and Belgium are very different.

Belgium is culturally very divided: the two major cultures (Dutch-speaking and French-speaking) are hardly mixed, especially in recent times, with the exception of Brussels.

From conversations with a Swiss friend, I gather that the cultures in Switzerland are much more mixed in daily life.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#183

Post by Blikkentrekker »

acd wrote: post #127

I think Japan would benefit socially from having immigrants from south america. Benefit in being more open how people behave socially. South america would benefit from Japanese engineering. I propose they make a mutual swap.

There is actually a very significant and large cultural symbiosis between Brazil and Japan with quite a bit of travel and interbreeding between them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil%E2%80%93Japan_relations

> Now, more than 1.6 million Brazilians are of Japanese descent, making Brazil host to the largest Japanese community outside Japan. At the same time, Japan is host to the third largest Brazilian population, most being of Japanese origin.

There are quite a few Japanese citizens now living in Japan that grew up in Brazil, and have one or two Brazilian parents and speak Portugese as well as Japanese.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#184

Post by Blikkentrekker »

hn3333 wrote: post #34

Genetics is one thing, but Japan definitely did allow foreign culture into their mix. Just look at the movie "The Last Samurai" to see what I mean. I wonder if it's possible to put out a number for that. As for my Country, as Europeans we are heavily influenced by Americans, who we completely seem to accept as our cultural leaders. How do the Japanese feel about them though?

From where I look at it, Japanese culture seems to be quite interested in adopting exotic elements very quickly and likes them for that reason.

There is nothing more Japanese than a parfait in the afternoon, a good curry in the evening, and a traditional Christian wedding before attending the Sintou shrine for a final blessing.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#185

Post by [deleted] »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #181
travmatt wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m telling you that black people in America have a culture that is descended from a lot of sources, and you cannot just simplify it as Anglo-Saxon, again because such a wide swath comes from the African diaspora that ignoring that means ignoring its most noticeable aspects. Gospel, jazz, blues, and rap are not descended from any Anglo-Saxon musical tradition, nor are our dances, or many of our foods. American cultur…

> I’m telling you that black people in America have a culture that is descended from a lot of sources, and you cannot just simplify it as Anglo-Saxon, again because such a wide swath comes from the African diaspora that ignoring that means ignoring its most noticeable aspects. Gospel, jazz, blues, and rap are not descended from any Anglo-Saxon musical tradition, nor are our dances, or many of our foods. I looked up t…

[deleted]

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#186

Post by tptacek »

rayiner wrote: post #128
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #92

"To some on the Right, Japan is a paradise of racial purity..." Is it now considered a de facto truth that people identifying as "Right" are racists? If not, why bring up the Right in this sentence? When I was growing up, Right overlapped with Conservative, but racists were a discrete group of people. If Right now means racist, what is the label for someone with the political attributes of Right, but who is not racis…

> If Right now means racist, what is the label for someone with the political attributes of Right, but who is not racist? There isn't one. Many liberals consider conservative beliefs to be inherently racist. Opposition to the ACA, for example, was decried as "racist": https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterubel/2013/11/21/is-opposit... . A lot of this worldview isn't unwarranted. Conservative opposition to the federal gov…

Oh, come on. The Democratic left also opposes the ACA. I'm sure somebody on Twitter or in The American Prospect managed to write the sentence implying that opposition to the ACA is somehow "racist", but nobody actually believes this, the same way nobody actually believes a lot of crazy things right-wingers have claimed. There has to be room for people to say stupid stuff without the constant risk that the entire debate will be characterized by those stupid things.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#187

Post by Blikkentrekker »

azernik wrote: post #16
CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #9

>The refusal to gather statistics on ethno-racial diversity is unusual Is this true? I don't understand why any country would want to open the box of pandora that is gathering statistics on ethno-racial diversity. I always thought countries like the USA and China were the exception.

Just off the top of my head for countries that also track ethnicity/race in government statistics: Belgium (because the Walloon/Fleming ethnic divide is so central to its politics), Germany (under the euphemism "migration background"), Russia, Israel, Lebanon... Ethnicity is an extremely important identity category, and if you want to manage that diversity you need information.

> Just off the top of my head for countries that also track ethnicity/race in government statistics: Belgium (because the Walloon/Fleming ethnic divide is so central to its politics), Germany (under the euphemism "migration background")

That is the point. They don't track race; they track country of birth, as does Japan. — this is an objective standard.

The U.S.A. is rather unique in that it tracks subjective, self-reported race.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#188

Post by Blikkentrekker »

jeromegv wrote: post #126
astrobe_ wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France. No government agency can mention or ask about ethnicity - in particular, our national statistics agency, the INSEE. Private organizations can, but this is not often seen. I think its an heritage from WWII, in particular the "yellow star". France refuses to consider racial differences (and religious differences too), it seeks unity in everything, to the point that it almost drove local languages to extinction.…

If France is so blind to ethnicity, would you say that your experience as a Frenchman is the same regardless of the colour of your skin? Access to employment, interaction with police, visibility in medias, access to politic circles etc. What you describe is the French dream but is that somewhat a reality?

I am Dutch; it is quite similar here.

It is about “ethnicity” as in country of origin and customs, not skin color.

I was not born in the Netherlands but did spend my formative years there; my skin is certainly a fair bit darker than the average Dutchman; my eyes are more oval; my nose is wider and smaller; my lips fuller; my hair is a perfect black. — yet never have I been treated as non-Dutch.

This is very different for my parent who speaks Dutch with a Surinamese accent and has different mannerisms, as it is for my parent's younger sibling who looks quite white but also has the Surinamese accent and mannerisms.

Surinamese people in the Netherlands definitely seem to feel some sort of kinship, and large parts of my family live in areæ of high concentration of Surinamese people, but these come in all colors, many of them are quite white but speak with a Surinamese accent.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#189

Post by rayiner »

bilbo0s wrote: post #179
rayiner wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve missed my argument. Almost all cultures venerate their history in the sense of socializing the idea that their country is basically good, and founded in ideals that are basically good. That’s very important to conservatives, because they believe 90% of everything is bad. If your society is successful, then you have to teach each generation to respect what came before, because whatever prosperity you enjoy is a…

I think you may have missed my point. Whatever people you disagree with believe, is the business of people you disagree with. There is no need to "flip out" about it. Someone wants to take a knee, that's his decision. Someone wants to fly a nazi flag at his own home, that's his decision. If a group wants to believe that America is fundamentally "good", that is the decision, and the right, of the people in that group.…

I understand the point of view, but it's one that makes no sense to conservatives. How can you have a democracy and agree to respect each other's votes if you don't have a shared view of the goodness of your basic institutions?

Put differently, I tend to agree with you that this vision of extreme pluralism is closer to how America was intended to function, and I agree that would be preferable. But if you're going to force my kids to school where you're going to teach them A or B, and if people in California and New York are going to have so much federal power over people in Iowa, that makes that sort of radical pluralism hard to achieve.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#190

Post by cainxinth »

lesderid wrote: post #182
cainxinth wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland is also what I call (non-pejoratively) an amalgam country. It’s a got a lot of German and Italian influences. Just like Belgium, which is a mix of French, German, and Dutch cultures.

AFAIK, Switzerland and Belgium are very different. Belgium is culturally very divided: the two major cultures (Dutch-speaking and French-speaking) are hardly mixed, especially in recent times, with the exception of Brussels. From conversations with a Swiss friend, I gather that the cultures in Switzerland are much more mixed in daily life.

I didn't mean to imply Switzerland and Belgium are similar.

I was saying that they are countries with national identities that are heavily influenced by their neighbors.

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