Live data from Hacker News

How Homogeneous Is Japan?

noahpinion.substack.com

151–160 of 232 posts

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Right now means racist, what is the label for someone with the political attributes of Right, but who is not racist? "Conservative". But in the US for instance, there are very few, say, fiscal conservatives. "Fiscal Conservatism" simply doesn't exist the way that we might have been used to seeing it in the 70's or even 80's. Modern administrations on the right consistently outspend modern administrations on the le…

Conservatism is a lot more expansive than just "fiscal conservatism." The Republican Party as originally constituted wasn't even fiscally conservative. Most center-left people and center-right people just don't meaningfully disagree on, e.g., whether we should still have Social Security. Social and political conservatism are the flashpoints. For examples consider the 1619 Project. It freaks out social and political c…

If your dividing line is "who venerates history?" Then there are no differences between the lefties and the righties. It's just my observation, but the issues lefties and righties have with each other spring mainly from which aspects of history they venerate?

Do you beleive the most important thing about the Civil War is the Confederacy and their right to self determination even on matters of slavery? Or do you think the most important thing about the Civil War is the defeat of said Confederacy and the abolition of slavery in every land under our dominion, no matter the determination level of its people?

"Both may be, but one must be, wrong."

Is the Trail of Tears important? Or is the defeat of the Nazis important? If it's the defeat of the Nazis, do we tolerate the people hoisting Nazi flags? Lefties and righties differ on these issues.

Believe it or not, we have a mechanism to handle all these contradictions. The US Constitution. Which brings us to the second major issue that lefties and righties make in society.

Their selective interpretation of the Constitution. Again, I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment that these people respect the Constitution. Neither lefties, nor righties, really respect the US Constitution. If they did, we wouldn't have people frothing at the mouth at the sight of the nazis/confederates/whatever-they-ares with their flags. Nor would Colin Kaepernick and other black athletes have people frothing at the mouth when they kneel. Nor would "stop and frisk" have ever even been conceived. Nor would privacy violations be done by the state at such scale in the name of security. Nor would minorities be discriminated against. Etc etc etc and on and on and on.

The issue with lefties and righties is precisely that they don't believe in the Constitutional rights of whatever group it is they don't like. That, more than anything, is what has caused all of the problems in our society lately.

Politics and political people have simply changed considerably over the years. Very little is what it was like 50 years ago. But again, as long as these people represent the beliefs of their supporters, what can you do? That's how it's supposed to work.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#152

"To some on the Right, Japan is a paradise of racial purity..." Is it now considered a de facto truth that people identifying as "Right" are racists? If not, why bring up the Right in this sentence? When I was growing up, Right overlapped with Conservative, but racists were a discrete group of people. If Right now means racist, what is the label for someone with the political attributes of Right, but who is not racis…

> Is it now considered a de facto truth that people identifying as "Right" are racists? Racial/ethnic/national/cultural (including religious) chauvinism has been an attribute of Conservatism/Right politics forever (also, class chauvinism, though over time that's become less pronounced, or at least less overt, faster than the others, probably because it's one of the things you can't really get away with out loud in sy…

'Neoliberal' has embedded assumptions about the ordering of society and role of the state on both domestic and international stages that many antiracist rightists would vociferously oppose (whatever Palladium Mag's smoking, or the boogaloo libertarians, for example - though they often pretend to exist outside of the left/right dichotomy).

As easy as it is to reduce 'the right' into the buckets of proto-fascism, and the Clinton-era uni-party consensus - it makes the category of little use as anything other than an ad-hominem.

The right is, and so far as I can tell, has always been defined in opposition to the politics of the political left, which having a coherent intellectual lineage, and a cohesive network of political philosophers, has been free to define itself. As a result, the right-wing tends to be a hodge-podge of largely unaffiliated political factions whose antipathy to one-another is only constrained by their unified foe.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#153
post #70

"Tokyo public schools will stop forcing students to dye their hair black, official promises" (2019) https://japantoday.com/category/national/tokyo-public-school... "According to a new survey published by Tokyo news outlet The Asahi Shimbun, 57% of public high schools in the city require students to prove that their hair color is natural." https://www.businessinsider.com/japanese-students-hair-color...

I find this to be a rather interesting thing myself.

The Japanese logic of forcing the students without black hair to dye it black is that it would be unfair to not do so, as they would otherwise have a choice that other students would not, as they can obviously not be allowed to not dye it black.

In many other countries, one is allowed one's natural hair color, but not dye it at all.

In some others, one is allowed to only dye it into naturally occurring colors; one might argue that for Japan anything other than black veers close to this philosophy since 99% of Japan has black hair.

In yet other countries, schools are not allowed by law to prohibit students from dying their hair in whatever color they might want. — I live in such a country so naturally from my perspective the obsession with hair color seems quaint.

But one is I suppose to appreciate that in Japan at one point only street thugs would dye their hair blond so it became a certain dog whistle. It is not too dissimilar from many North-West European schools in the early 2000s banning any and all clothing of the brand Londsdale, until some courts overruled that, as the brand became a dog whistle for Nazis, as when carefully covered the lettering leads “NDSA” which is one letter short of “NDSAP”.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France. No government agency can mention or ask about ethnicity - in particular, our national statistics agency, the INSEE. Private organizations can, but this is not often seen. I think its an heritage from WWII, in particular the "yellow star". France refuses to consider racial differences (and religious differences too), it seeks unity in everything, to the point that it almost drove local languages to extinction.…

If France is so blind to ethnicity, would you say that your experience as a Frenchman is the same regardless of the colour of your skin? Access to employment, interaction with police, visibility in medias, access to politic circles etc. What you describe is the French dream but is that somewhat a reality?

> would you say that your experience as a Frenchman is the same regardless of the colour of your skin?

You are committing the American mistake of thinking that people sharing a skin colour also share a culture. There will be a tremendous amount of cultural difference between a black Senegalese who is a first generation immigrant and someone from the Reunion whose great grand parents were already all French citizens.

You don't need to collect ethnicity based statistics and start treating people differently based on the color of their skin to fight racism.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#155
I'm not a fan of this article because it focuses on the most 'technical' definition of homogeneity based only on race, immigration, skin-color, etc. It also reads to me like "I know more about Japan than you" elitist talk which is all-to-common in fandoms of various kinds (and Japanophiles in general).

When I talk about the diversity of Japan, I like to focus on the different regions of Japan. Much like we recognize distinct traits between people from California, Texas, Minnesota, and New York in the US, Japanese people have distinct characteristics depending on which region they are from: Okinawa, Kansai, Tokyo, or Hokkaido to name a handful. Beyond that each of those regions is geographically different and has their own local customs and cultural quirks which I've always enjoyed learning about.

I think such a narrow view of what 'homogeneous' means is only used to serve a specific goal, and not to analyze the topic as a whole and in good-faith. Disclaimer: I grew up in Japan as a foreigner and still have much to learn, but it's my favorite place in the world by far.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#156
post #94

I think this article goes through a lot of micro-exercizes and micro-corrections and semantics to avoid the obvious conclusion that Japan is mostly honogenous, and to a far more degree than the US or a lot of European countries. Counter-examples don't refute a general observation. They can only refute an absolute statement. But when it comes to actual numbers and breakdowns (which would put a general observation into…

> than the US or ...

That's just a silly item to include, given that the US is thoroughly heterogeneous.

> a lot of European countries

I.e not to a greater degree than some European countries.

Japan is not more homogeneous than, say, Poland or Denmark.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#157
post #21
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just off the top of my head for countries that also track ethnicity/race in government statistics: Belgium (because the Walloon/Fleming ethnic divide is so central to its politics), Germany (under the euphemism "migration background"), Russia, Israel, Lebanon... Ethnicity is an extremely important identity category, and if you want to manage that diversity you need information.

>Germany (under the euphemism "migration background") That's very different from the US keeping track of race though. After a generation there's no way for the German government to tell the children from naturalized citizens from other German citizens.

The German government doesn't know who it's citizen's parents are?

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#158
post #10

Landing in Japan, I was surprised to find that people did not look that similar. I mean, this is Asia and all Asians look the same. But Japan had some yellowish, whitish, brownish people that were all, euh, Japanese. In a sense, they were Japanese because they behaved like Japanese. It seems that behavior plays a big role in how people can identify another one as being one of them. Robert Sapolsky has a great series…

> In a sense, they were Japanese because they behaved like Japanese. It seems that behavior plays a big role in how people can identify another one as being one of them.

I find this to be the case too in the Netherlands.

There is a large immigrant population and they cannot be identified by the color of their skin, but easily by their body language. It is strangely reproducible to spot a Pole from a rather far distance from the way he walks.

A friend of mine is “Turkish”, but he came to the Netherlands quite young and thus did not undergo Turkish socialization and walks and speaks as any Dutchman, so many are quite surprised when it's eventually revealed that he speaks Turkish fluently and was born in Turkey, as many Turks, though not visually very distinct from the Dutch, have a certain body language that often identifies them that often disappears within a generation with those that did spend their formative years in the Netherlands.

Similarly, I am not white but since I spent my formative years in the Netherlands my body language and accent are completely Dutch, but my parents both have a hint of Surinamese accent and body language that instantly identifies them, though one of them is white.

> Robert Sapolsky has a great series in Youtube about Behavioral Biology. One of the insights he brings is about Arabs: According to him, Arabs adopted very long names so that they can avoid racial conflict. When two persons recites their names and find a family name that's similar, they assume that they are family and this helps them co-operate. Now that's BS (given a long enough last name, you are going to find a similar grand-parent name) but it happens to work. Islam had this too: Your fellow muslim is your "brother".

> It's time some countries realize that this has been a solved problem: To uproot racism, you need to rally your population behind common denominators and values.

Yet what this simply seems to create is conflict with external parties until it reaches the entire world.

It seems as though many men have a drive to be part of an ethnic, tribal conflict. I even find that, most ironically, what brings men together is the combined struggle against other men.

There is nothing quite like a war with another nation, that makes a nation forget it's petty differences.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#159
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by immigrants you mean immigrant non-citizen residents, that's how it is in most of the world.

Very notably not in the US, however. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Sure. Was just pointing out that Japan doesn't adhere to some bizarre purity policy: it's just the worldwide default. It's the USA who is an outlier.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today, it’s more like a centrist. The average, vocal, “conservative” that you’ll find in US media or politics is a reactionary whose bona fides consist of a few narrowly focused issues that pander to a few core constituencies including now, racists and nativists. They often don’t share conservative ideals beyond that. Growing up, my family were blue collar Catholics. They were fairly conservative from a personal life…

> The average, vocal, “conservative” that you’ll find in US media or politics is a reactionary whose bona fides consist of a few narrowly focused issues that pander to a few core constituencies including now, racists and nativists. They often don’t share conservative ideals beyond that. I don't watch much TV (especially "news" channels) so I might just be out of the loop here, but how has US conservative media been p…

“America First” and “Guns and God” are dog whistles for those types of people.

You don’t hear anything about conservative principles. Just demagoguery and wielding of power.

Post reply on HN