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Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

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Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#501

Post by wpietri »

aidenn0 wrote: post #203
wpietri wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure the numbers agree with you. Check out this recent survey: https://www.livecareer.com/resources/careers/planning/is-rem... In particular, scroll 3/4ths of the way down to the "Remote Work Prospects and Employees' Expectations" section. 61% of now-remote workers say they want to stay remote. 29% say they'll quit their jobs it they're forced to go back. And few want to go back 5 days per week. A year ago, I…

I guarantee that 29% of employees will not quit their jobs if forced to go back; that number is way to high.

Sure. More people always intend a thing then actually do it. But I think it's indicative of their feelings. What they will do is complain bitterly, and if they see an opportunity to go remote, they'll take it. That's a great incentive for managers to keep hiring remote.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#502

Post by ChefboyOG »

kmonsen wrote: post #278
cco wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Key positives for a company are reduced cost of office space and ability to draw upon a wider, cheaper pool of potential workers...[real dollar values] >Key negatives are reduced productivity due to lack of supervision, difficulty of face-to-face meetings with clients, difficulty of training younger staff.[hard to measure] Just throwing this experience of mine out there, when faced with actual dollar figures and har…

Yeah, then why not fire everyone? Reduce salaries to 0, all the work is hard to measure. Or why have we all not been remote for a long time, instead of squeezed into high cost locations? When it comes to their core business companies have a decent belief in what it looks like.

I mean, corporations do regularly offshore as much work as they possibly can and build new plants/offices in low cost locations. Obviously, they need employees, but it's not as if companies don't already do everything they can to reduce the cost of labor.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#503

Post by anticensor »

adventurer wrote: post #258
arfatsalman wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Almost no public companies allowed 100% remote work. Almost none. Honestly I can’t even name a single company that did, but I’m sure there is at least one right? Automattic?

They're not public yet.

Do you imply that investors care about presenteeism?

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#504

Post by ghaff »

troydavis wrote: post #484

I'm a little disappointed at the percentage of comments which extrapolate personal anecdotes into societal behavior, and without addressing the data in this study - even to poke holes in the methodology, which is totally fair game (though IMO quite good, especially for what they had to work with). The whole point of a 15,000-person survey like this is so that we're not all stuck guessing based on our own experiences.…

One thing I wish more studies delved into more--although, as you say, what people think today and what they'll actually do may be different--is the difference between part-time (even most-time) WFH and fully remote because that's actually a pretty big distinction. It might be the difference between having a very long commute one day a week and living in a mountain town or on the other side of the country.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#505

Post by ChefboyOG »

joelbluminator wrote: post #380
ianai wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder whether WFH will make work more ‘marginal value-add’ - it’s probably far easier to hire/fire someone remote than an office setting, for instance. Maybe some work will start to resemble Uber more than traditional work?

If I understand what you mean I totally agree; remote work isn't good for say developers who mostly got by by being good politicians. We probably all worked with people like that. You will be judged more by your actual output than by how well you give presentations or get along with bosses. On the other hand it's terrific for people who got pushed out of the job market due to ageism or other biases. It matters less w…

In theory, I think this is a plausible positive scenario. In practice, however, I've never seen it play out like this (huge anecdata here).

I've worked remote most of my career, and in my experience, the politics and work theaterisms are still there, just different.

For example, someone's perceived level of "effort" often becomes a function of how responsive they are. Do they respond to Slack messages at random hours, when team members in different time zones/aggressive managers ping them? Do they frequently communicate with the team via video calls and Slack discussions? Just like in normal office politics, their actual productivity or work quality is assessed less than their appearance of engagement.

That's just an example, but my experience in general has been that remote doesn't change anything about the cultural of management at a company. Whatever metrics mattered in person, there will be remote equivalents to replace them.

The positive here is that good leadership is still good leadership, remote or not. The negative, obviously, is that remote isn't the balm for poor leadership that many hope it will be.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#506

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway3699 wrote: post #426
ameister14 wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way you put it, it sounds like you're working with the best possible team you can - why would you be sacrificing your career to stay? Wouldn't it be the other way around? Sacrificing your career for social contact?

Social contact is essential to the development of one's career. And to be honest, this might be a personal thing, but if a job isn't worth being in person for, then it's not worth pursuing at all. I know I'd much rather be with a few friends hacking projects together for pennies on the dollar than making 200k remote.

[deleted]

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#507

Post by aiisjustanif »

aidenn0 wrote: post #203
wpietri wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure the numbers agree with you. Check out this recent survey: https://www.livecareer.com/resources/careers/planning/is-rem... In particular, scroll 3/4ths of the way down to the "Remote Work Prospects and Employees' Expectations" section. 61% of now-remote workers say they want to stay remote. 29% say they'll quit their jobs it they're forced to go back. And few want to go back 5 days per week. A year ago, I…

I guarantee that 29% of employees will not quit their jobs if forced to go back; that number is way to high.

Anecdotally, I have been shocked to see managers in my department not understanding attrition due to people in IT quitting because they are finding new fully remote jobs because they didn’t like the constant “when we plan to go back fully in the office”.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#508

Post by [deleted] »

j4yav wrote: post #379
rorroe53 wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, hybrid is definitely the best for most companies. Some in-person collaboration and socializing is always going to beneficial, even if rest of the work is done remotely. Having a long commute isn't that bad either if you only do it once or twice a week, so it gives people much more freedom over where they can live.

GitLab seems to be doing ok, and they get together in person only once every 8 or 9 months. Or would you consider that hybrid also?

[deleted]

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#509

Post by ashtonkem »

midasuni wrote: post #340
rapsey wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans also start work really late. 9 to 5 takes up the whole day. Where I am at most start at 7 or 8.

Start at 7 means getting up really early, so for a good night sleep you have to go to bed halfway through the evening. The hour you start at makes no difference to how much you work.

I suspect the issue here is schools. Most parents might work 9-5, but schools often start as early as 7-8am, which means the parents (or at least a parent) needs to get up early enough to coordinate for school and also work until 5pm.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#510

Post by ashtonkem »

nobody9999 wrote: post #270
rapsey wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans also start work really late. 9 to 5 takes up the whole day. Where I am at most start at 7 or 8.

> Americans also start work really late. 9 to 5 takes up the whole day. Where I am at most start at 7 or 8. There are many places and jobs in the US where people start work at 8 or even 7. That seems to be functions of both industry and region.

The regional effects are strong. I’ve only done software, but even within that narrow domain I’ve seen a 4 hour difference. The west coast specifically seems to bias super late, and I was shocked when I joined $EMPLOYER that the norm was roughly 11am to 7pm.
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