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No one knows how much the government can borrow

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Re: No one knows how much the government can borrow

#271
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between the smaller countries and the USA is, the dollar is basically the world's currency now. The world can afford to let Venezuela fail, but if the USA fails, the whole world goes down with it, so IMO they'll happily "lend" the USA more money. With the Roman Empire, I'm guessing other problems caused it to fall; it didn't fall because of money printing, but it was printing money because it was falli…

> The world can afford to let Venezuela fail, but if the USA fails, the whole world goes down with it Hypothetically if the riots at the Capitol had gotten really bad and America fell even close to Civil War a couple of weeks ago, I'm quite certain the rest of the Developed World would have quickly switched to using the Euro or the Yen or the Yuan or some combination of those and more. I seriously doubt it would take…

There's no real Euro safe asset equivalent to Treasuries. Until that changes, the dollar is here to stay.

Re: No one knows how much the government can borrow

#272

I would suggest reading This Time Is Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly by Carmen M. Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff. It is quite academic, but it comes the closest to answering this question that I have ever seen.

Do you mean the authors who found their purported relationship due to errors in their Excel spreadsheets?

That being said, even if I have issues with their policy prescriptions, I've heard good things about the book.

Re: No one knows how much the government can borrow

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know who Dalio is. I've read his Principles . He's a smart cookie. I think he's wrong. The inflationists have been squawking about since QE started under Ben Bernanke way back in 2010: > We believe the Federal Reserve's large-scale asset purchase plan (so-called "quantitative easing") should be reconsidered and discontinued. We do not believe such a plan is necessary or advisable under current circumstances. The pl…

While Dalio has publicly anticipated cash and bonds being poor investments in 2020, I'm making a blanket statement regarding appeals to authority (similar to you). But when authorities are to be invoked, economists are generally just sideline-experts with no skin in the game, who are unable to translate their understanding of markets into alpha. This is in response to you stating in your first post that economists ar…

> While Dalio has publicly anticipated cash and bonds being poor investments in 2020, I'm making a blanket statement regarding appeals to authority (similar to you).

Sure. But my appeal-to-authority has peer-reviewed models behind him. Does yours? [citation needed] :)

> I am curious though -- can you expand on what you believe Krugman's position to be here, and why it makes sense? He doesn't seem to worry about inflation from open market operations because it works until it doesn't.

I've heard the explanation (probably more than once), and it made sense to me when I heard it, but it was not important enough to me to bother retaining. I think this is a decent blurb on it:

> Under these circumstances, normal monetary policy, which takes the form of open-market operations in which the central bank buys short-term debt with money it creates out of thin air, have no effect. Why?

> Well, the reason open-market operations usually work is that people are making a tradeoff between yield and liquidity – they hold money, which offers no interest, for the liquidity but limit their holdings because they pay a price in lost earnings. So if the central bank puts more money out there, people are holding more than they want, try to offload it, and drive rates down in the process.

> But if rates are zero, there is no cost to liquidity, and people are basically saturated with it; at the margin, they’re holding money simply as a store of value, essentially equivalent to short-term debt. And a central bank operation that swaps money for debt basically changes nothing. Ordinary monetary policy is ineffective.

> The flip side of this, by the way, is that all those fears about how “printing money” in this slump would lead to runaway inflation were predictably wrong. If you paid attention to the Japanese story from the last decade, you knew that simply expanding the central bank’s balance sheet did little, and certainly wasn’t inflationary:

* https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/11/monetary-policy...

So as long as rates are at/near zero, 'printing money' won't be a problem. If, however, rates are in a 'normal' range, then yes, increasing money supply can lead to inflation at that time.

Krugman first wrote about this in 1998 when Japan first experienced what the rest of us are now seeing (it asks for registration, but you can skip it):

* https://www.brookings.edu/bpea-articles/its-baaack-japans-sl...

Generally speaking, if you want to research this yourself, look at these concepts:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_lower_bound

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquidity_trap

Perhaps see "The IS-LM Model and the Liquidity Trap Concept":

* https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-IS-LM-Model-and-th...

* https://doi.org/10.1215/00182702-36-Suppl_1-92

> These asset classes are severely under-represented in the CPI. Because these are mostly unrealized gains enjoyed by so few, there aren't that many more people competing to buy milk and eggs, which would actually affect CPI.

It has not been "under-represented in the CPI". It is not the purpose of CPI to look at asset prices, but rather (roughly) cost of living via a basket of goods. For home, the CPI generally includes either rent or mortgage carrying costs.

To home prices, Michael Batnick and Ben Carlson discuss this in light of Ben's weblog post:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3dO8BW9RHg&t=3m26s

* https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2021/01/inflation-truthers/

* Discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25644580

> Many progressive economists don't seem to realize their policies contribute to massive wealth inequality just as much as America's poor attempt at graduated tax brackets.

Want to reduce wealth inequality? Increase taxation/redistribution. Top marginal tax rates are half of what they were during Eisenhower's administration and the (adjusted) minimum wage is below what it was during Nixon. While you may need an economist to get the "right" / "optimal" number, you don't need one to know that they're probably too low.

Re: No one knows how much the government can borrow

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He has had the resources and status to access any scholar on the topic he would like. So did Bill Gross of PIMCO, one of the largest fixed-income (bond) management firms in the world (AUM: $1.9T): * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIMCO He bet that interest rates would rise in 2011 after QE(2). Keynesian macroeconomists like Krugman said they wouldn't. Krugam was right: * https://www.businessinsider.com/this-was-the-…

Krugman recently came out and said almost all of his advice about globalism was wrong. The man can't be trusted.

As opposed to the people who are wrong and don't admit it:

> We believe the Federal Reserve's large-scale asset purchase plan (so-called "quantitative easing") should be reconsidered and discontinued. We do not believe such a plan is necessary or advisable under current circumstances. The planned asset purchases risk currency debasement and inflation, and we do not think they will achieve the Fed's objective of promoting employment.

* https://economics21.org/html/open-letter-ben-bernanke-287.ht...

As Paul Samuelson, an important 20C economist, said:

> Well when events change, I change my mind. What do you do?

* https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/07/22/keynes-change-mind/

Re: No one knows how much the government can borrow

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Krugman recently came out and said almost all of his advice about globalism was wrong. The man can't be trusted.

Citation, please? Krugman has been laudably willing to confess error; I wasn't aware he'd done so on this point.

Here's one:

> And so during the 1990s a number of economists, myself included (Krugman 1995), tried to assess the role of Stolper-Samuelson-type effects in rising inequality. Inevitably given the standard framework, such analyses did in fact find some depressing effect of growing trade on the wages of less-educated workers in advanced countries. As a quantitative matter, however, they generally suggested that the effect was relatively modest, and not the central factor in the widening income gap.

> Meanwhile, the political salience of globalization seemed to decline as other issues came to the fore. So academic interest in the possible adverse effects of trade, while it never went away, waned.

> In the past few years, however, worries about globalization have shot back to the top of the agenda, partly due to new research, partly due to the political shocks of Brexit and Trump. And as one of the people who helped shape the 90s consensus – that the income distribution effects of rising trade were real but modest – it seems appropriate to ask now what we missed. What aspects of rising trade did we either fail to see at the time or fail to anticipate?

* https://www.gc.cuny.edu/cuny_gc/media/liscenter/pkrugman/pk_...

One hour talk by him from 2019:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWQ3jCURzy0

* https://fbe.unimelb.edu.au/newsroom/paul-krugman-globalisati...

Re: No one knows how much the government can borrow

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not convinced that more of it is sloshing. A lot of the 'inflationistas' only look at the quantity/supply of money (M1/2), and don't bother examining what it is doing. The velocity of money is an important component: > This view can also be represented by the so-called “quantity theory of money,” which relates the general price level, the total goods and services produced in a given period, the total money supp…

Yep, people keep conflating growth of the money supply should lead to rising CPI inflation. But money isn't neutral, you need to pay attention to the Cantillion Effect. When money enters into the economy through the wealthy, they buy stocks and it gets trapped. You can track this trapped money by looking at the velocity. When you increase the money supply by dropping interest rates, its essentially given according to…

I just wanted to say that this was a great, well-thought comment and thank you foe your time and writing it. I’d love to hear other, similar comments.

Re: No one knows how much the government can borrow

#278
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people just ramp up their lifestyle when they make more money. I've been petty conservative about doing that and living below my means since the start of my career. In the beginning I was saving 80% of my income. That dropped over time as I got married and had to accept ramping up my expenses, but I've saved enough over the years to be about halfway to financial independence by my mid thirties. I strongly recomm…

The trouble with this approach (although rational for an individual) is that if everyone who can does this, we end up with even more of a global savings glut than we already have, and interest rates go even more negative. As an aside, it's very odd to me that we have so much money sloshing around, and yet we're not spending it on infrastructure that would help us get off the fossil fuel treadmill and towards a more s…

Eh it’s not really odd. You are mistakenly believing that your goals (and mine here are the same) align with others and that it is an obvious course of action. For most Americans “drive my SUV down the 10 lane highway” is normal and ideal. They don’t give a shit about anything else. Sorry to say.

Re: No one knows how much the government can borrow

#279
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CPI takes into account housing, specifically the carrying costs (which is 'rent equivalent'). Housing itself, like stocks, is considered an asset and is not part of inflation. > [Young people] will inherit the national debt as well. You know who else will inherit the national debt? Their children, and grand children, and great grand children, and great-great grand children. Not too long ago the UK rolled forward…

> Housing itself, like stocks, is considered an asset and is not part of inflation. The CPI is an arbitrary indicator set and counted by the government in secrecy, the same entity that has the incentive to keep its value low. Even if someone trusts the government, it does not mean they should trust it completely. * https://www.forbes.com/sites/perianneboring/2014/02/03/if-yo... * https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspe…

CPI is peer-reviewed and a form of it is used in most countries:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_price_index

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_index

It's is reproducible by non-government people:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Billion_Prices_project

If you think that inflation is higher than the reported GDP growth:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3dO8BW9RHg

* https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2021/01/inflation-truthers/

* Discussed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25644580

Re: No one knows how much the government can borrow

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the iphone price keeps rising at a healthy clip. They can now be $1300. The iPhone (1) was introduced in 2007 and cost US$ 600 for the 8 GB model. What were its capabilities in 2007 ? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_(1st_generation) What, for $600, can you get now? And what are the capabilities of a $600 smartphone in 2021 ? An iPhone 12 mini is $700 [1], an iPhone 11 [2] 64 GB is $600, and a 128 GB for $650…

You have to comare with a $600 smartphone from 2007 and $600 one from 2021 and see how far apple is actually ahead

> see how far apple is actually ahead

Or any smartphone really. Or computers generally.

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