Pidgin is lagging hard in implementing new XMPP extensions (such as 0280, 0313 or 0363) making it unfortunately quite useless for Jabber.
patches welcome ;)
Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client
451–460 of 461 posts
Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client
#452Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no need for this “server somewhere”, and APNS can’t have your message, mainly for two reasons: First, that “server” is Signal server itself. When a message arrives at it, it simply commands Apple to wake up your app, for it to call home, and that’s it. It is preconfigured to do that (and GCM as well). Second, all Signal messages are end to end encrypted and neither of Apple, Signal, Google, your ISP, any ser…
We're talking about federated/decentralized protocols that Pidgin serves as the type of client for, in a thread about why we don't see things like Pidgin on iOS. In a centralized system where the mobile app is made by the same people as the IM server, of course the IM server can send a notification to the app (such as is done in e2e stuff like Signal, or in non-e2e such as Telegram). That falls apart when you're talk…
We're talking about federated/decentralized protocols that Pidgin serves as the type of client for, in a thread about why we don't see things like Pidgin on iOS.
Sorry, I misunderstood that.
Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client
#453Earlier quoted context omitted.
> that may or may not do what they want to Computers inexplicably don't do what you want them to do all the time, though. Modern cars, by contrast, are incredibly reliable even with extremely insufficient maintenance.
I beg to differ: my Mazda MX-5 has a lane departure warning system that flatly gets it wrong all the time. My prior car, a Scion iA, mis-triggered the "smart city breaking" on the freeway and nearly caused an accident. The infotainment system fails bluetooth connections inexplicably, and flatly refuses at accept CarPlay or Android Auto connections periodically. And I keep my cars clean and current with maintenance. A…
Aren’t some of those parts actually computers in the car that don’t work as expected?
Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client
#454Ah! the glorious days of integrated chat clients. I had friends of MSN Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, GTalk and for a very limited time ICQ (Actually it was the same guys on all networks :) ). There weren't any network effort, people were willing to try out different IMs for their uniqueness. Lots of companies were trying to produce integrated chat clients - Pidgin, Meebo, Trillian, Digsby and a whole lot of guys on Mob…
It remains something of a testament to human stupidity and avarice that chat to most of the world in most languages with pretty good security and even some video support was basically a solved problem in like 2008 and a complete clusterfuck again by 2016.
I'm not aware of how good the clients worked at the time, but I believe there still are some features that were developped in the meantime that were not there:
- privacy in general, with asynchronous e2ee with forward secrecy and minimization of metadata
- reactions. They might sound childish but they're a good way of acknowledging something without polluting the chat itself
- proper support of files, including easy display of all media and search
- probably the biggest: voice/video calls. "Some support" clearly wasn't good enough.
Now it's a really hard place for Pidgin to sit in, because it can only follow what the protocols do, not push them to do more or to standardize.
Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client
#455Does nobody remember Pidgin? It was one of the first things a lot of people installed on their machines 15 years ago along with Firefox. We used it as an alternative client to AOL Instant Messenger and Yahoo Messenger. It used to be called GAIM.
I still remember Pidgin very well.
Back in 2006 (or 2007?), most of my campus friends used YM on Meebo.
I used Pidgin until 2011, I guess. There was Pidgin portable, which was very easy to use on computer labs where you don't have install acess.
Then most people switched to BBM. I worked as a BlackBerry dev at that time, so I followed that path.
Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client
#456Earlier quoted context omitted.
Every. Single. Product. Everyone. Tracks behaviors to improve the product. It’s table stakes. Often without a disclaimer! Welcome to the internet. Be upset about it if you must but it is not equivalent to “spyware.”
This is entirely false. Debian not only doesn't do this, it patches out such tomfoolery in anything they distribute. It's a recent trend, but it's nowhere near ubiquitous, and it's still a major violation of consent to exfiltrate a user's data without asking, even if every piece of software in the world did it (as you erroneously claimed). When software spies on you without permission, there's a name for that type of…
Pointing out Debian as your counter example is so silly.
Yes, HackerNews community member, but we’re talking about software in aggregate amongst products people out in the world use not just your favorite Linux distros.
Analytics are very common now, carry no malice, and are not spyware.
The term has implications that aren’t satisfied here but hey, it’s HN and YOLO. Everything is spyware everyone should use Debian, eat Arby’s etc
Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client
#457Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is entirely false. Debian not only doesn't do this, it patches out such tomfoolery in anything they distribute. It's a recent trend, but it's nowhere near ubiquitous, and it's still a major violation of consent to exfiltrate a user's data without asking, even if every piece of software in the world did it (as you erroneously claimed). When software spies on you without permission, there's a name for that type of…
Pointing out Debian as your counter example is so silly. Yes, HackerNews community member, but we’re talking about software in aggregate amongst products people out in the world use not just your favorite Linux distros. Analytics are very common now, carry no malice, and are not spyware . The term has implications that aren’t satisfied here but hey, it’s HN and YOLO. Everything is spyware everyone should use Debian,…
It isn't a fact, because you keep saying that. It's reasonable to ask what constitutes spyware, and categorize analytics either in or out of that category.
In any reasonable definition of spyware (it spies on you to the creator's benefit and not yours) then analytics goes in that category.
Try to give comments the most generous interpretation. That's what silly HackerNews community members agree to in the rules.
Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client
#458Earlier quoted context omitted.
That was on the rising edge of the wave of "computers are awesome and will change everyone's life". We're on the falling edge now. The problem GP refers to is this: making computers is expensive, gets cheaper with economies of scale. But economies of scale are capital-intensive, so they exist only where there's a market for it. The market for people requiring general-purpose computation is small and getting smaller,…
This doesn't really make sense. A general purpose computer isn't expensive. It's just a special purpose computer without the locks added on top.
Already now, high-end general purpose computer parts can be more expensive than an embedded, restricted package. The embedded market can operate at a loss because their revenue is based on subscription services. The recent releases of new NVidia and AMD parts is a perfect example: AMD's share of TSMC's capacity was allocated mostly to produce the PS 5 and the Xbox Series X/S, while Samsung (NVidia's fab) clearly couldn't handle the sheer demand for the RTX 3000 series. Fortunately there are several OEM PC manufacturers still, but in the long term they will follow where the market forces blow too.
Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client
#459Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pointing out Debian as your counter example is so silly. Yes, HackerNews community member, but we’re talking about software in aggregate amongst products people out in the world use not just your favorite Linux distros. Analytics are very common now, carry no malice, and are not spyware . The term has implications that aren’t satisfied here but hey, it’s HN and YOLO. Everything is spyware everyone should use Debian,…
It isn't a fact, because you keep saying that. It's reasonable to ask what constitutes spyware, and categorize analytics either in or out of that category. In any reasonable definition of spyware (it spies on you to the creator's benefit and not yours) then analytics goes in that category. Try to give comments the most generous interpretation. That's what silly HackerNews community members agree to in the rules.
Nor are your assertions facts because you keep repeating them.
It appears we are at an impasse.
In the meantime, I and the vast majority of people will carry on using Homebrew without labeling it as loaded with “spyware” - whether you agree with it or not.
Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client
#460Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn't need access to the content of the messages.
Sure, but it needs to know that there are new messages. I don't think that's a separate permission on any (e.g.) ActivityPub/XMPP/IRC server implementation today.
On all XMPP server implementations I've worked with, the push notifications mechanism supports (and usually defaults to) not including any message body in the API call to the push server. Usually it's also possible to leave out the sender name/JID, e.g. with prosody's mod_cloud_notify.