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How Homogeneous Is Japan?

noahpinion.substack.com

51–60 of 232 posts

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#51
post #39
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Germany (under the euphemism "migration background") That's very different from the US keeping track of race though. After a generation there's no way for the German government to tell the children from naturalized citizens from other German citizens.

> That's very different from the US keeping track of race though. You'll also never see a German statistic even using the word "race" for humans beings.

The use of "race" for ethnicity is indeed a uniquely American thing; most of the countries I've mentioned use "ethnicity" or "nationality".

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#53
post #39
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Germany (under the euphemism "migration background") That's very different from the US keeping track of race though. After a generation there's no way for the German government to tell the children from naturalized citizens from other German citizens.

> That's very different from the US keeping track of race though. You'll also never see a German statistic even using the word "race" for humans beings.

not for recent stats in any case...

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#54
post #21
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just off the top of my head for countries that also track ethnicity/race in government statistics: Belgium (because the Walloon/Fleming ethnic divide is so central to its politics), Germany (under the euphemism "migration background"), Russia, Israel, Lebanon... Ethnicity is an extremely important identity category, and if you want to manage that diversity you need information.

>Germany (under the euphemism "migration background") That's very different from the US keeping track of race though. After a generation there's no way for the German government to tell the children from naturalized citizens from other German citizens.

"Migration background" is defined as by the Statistisches Bundesamt as anyone having at least one grandparent who immigrated after 1949. We're only just getting into the period where descendants of e.g. Croatian immigrants of the '50s are not classified as being of "Migration background".

This is, of course, only used for statistical purposes; this information isn't tracked on an individual basis for use in any day-to-day decisions.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make them do it anyway. It's interesting to note in this context that unlike most countries, China fully assimilated its Jewish population.

True, I have heard they are assimilating their Muslim population very effectively too. They even have assimilation holiday camps, fun for all the family.

I'm sort of morbidly fascinated by the equation in the American press of "China's Muslim population" with "China's Uyghur population". They're very different things.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#56
post #51
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's very different from the US keeping track of race though. You'll also never see a German statistic even using the word "race" for humans beings.

The use of "race" for ethnicity is indeed a uniquely American thing; most of the countries I've mentioned use "ethnicity" or "nationality".

It's even weirder: in the US, ethnicity is a separate official category from race that has two buckets: either "hispanic or latino" or "not hispanic or latino". Which... what?

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#57

>The refusal to gather statistics on ethno-racial diversity is unusual Is this true? I don't understand why any country would want to open the box of pandora that is gathering statistics on ethno-racial diversity. I always thought countries like the USA and China were the exception.

[deleted]

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, reasoning in cited sentence is wrong. If U.S. is "93% American" then on average 7 out 100 people you meet will not be "American", whereas for Japan only 2 out of 100 will not be "Japanese" - based on those numbers Japan is about "350% more homogeneous" country, not "5%" as suggested. It is a case of Potato Paradox, where small numerical differences between values given as percentages can hide big differences in…

That's not a real paradox, which is why Quine called it a "veridical paradox." You're just taking your personal feeling about a difference as the primary criterion for evaluating the subjective significance of the difference, but these feelings differ from person to person.

Reducing... "That's not a real paradox, which is why Quine called it a 'paradox'"?

meta

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#59
I really don't know what the point of this article is, it hasn't answer the question it poses. It simply starts with a straw man argument that Japan is only thought of as homogenous because of the 2% foreign-born statistic.

Firstly, that 2% statistic is telling, even though he pretends it isn't. It doesn't tell the whole story, but it is one of the best indicators for homogeneity, because the percentage of people born abroad living in your country, says something about the recent (last 2-3 generations) inflow of foreign elements (e.g. language, food, dna, religion etc).

If you look at the statistics, Europe and the US are places where these percentages are very high. The US or Germany for example are around 15%. Given Japan is at 2%, that's actually 1 out of 50 in Japan vs 1 out of 6 in say US or Germany, a massive difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d...

Second, even if you look at the population which is born in Japan but has a non-Japanese heritage, the very fact so many blend in and aren't known to have non-Japanese roots says something about the homogeneity as well. The author references Masayoshi Son who is seen to be Japanese and only known to be Korean due to being a billionaire that journalists looked in to, isn't an argument against homogeneity (because, look, Koreans in Japan! Didn't think that did you?) but rather for homogeneity (because look, a 3rd generation Korean like Son isn't normally recognised unless he is a billionaire. Their entire culture has blended in and become Japanese to the point it is homogeneous and only detectable by DNA-test or investigative journalism. That shouts homogeneity to me. Son needed to be famous to be recognised as Korean ,not Japanese. But Obama or Harris didn't need to be famous to be recognised as different from the majority ethnic group in the US.

People don't claim that Japan is completely racially pure. The claim is if you take a homogenous/heterogeneous spectrum and plot rich countries on it (e.g. EU, North-America, Australia etc), Japan is relative to such countries, much more on one side than the other.

There are two main reasons for this. One is that Japan simply has had much less (permanent) migration for one.

And two, even with high-levels of migration, there can still be two different responses: Integration or Assimilation. Star Trek's Borg are fully composed of new peoples, but they are assimilated. Everyone becomes Borg, unrecognisable. Whereas you can also integrate new peoples, your culture changes, you adapt to new elements, the population and the individuals therein can be recognisably differentiated. Japan is no Borg, but on this spectrum it also scores higher on assimilation than integration, vis-a-vis other rich countries like the US or Europe. And in that sense, Japan is among a few uniquely (relatively) homogenous countries.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#60
post #6

A lot of words in this article in order to make a very weak argument. I assume he started writing before he started researching. From wikipedia: > Chinese people in Japan are the largest foreign minorities in Japan. They comprise 0.64% of Japan's population. So the largest ethnic groups in japan which aren't Japanese all comprise a percentage of the population measured in tenths of a single percent, at the most. Now…

> Chinese people in Japan are the largest foreign minorities in Japan. They comprise 0.64% of Japan's population.

Does that mean what we think it means, though? Does that include people of Chinese descent who are Japanese citizens (who, as the author points out, are considered "Japanese" for statistical purposes), or (as I suspect) it only includes non-citizen Chinese people?

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