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Whitehouse.gov Chooses WordPress, Again

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Re: Whitehouse.gov Chooses WordPress, Again

#251

Post by marc_io »

neurostimulant wrote: post #246
falcolas wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simplicity? Perhaps in its use, but not the code. The code and hosting requirements are, frankly, Frankenstein's monster levels of frightening. ~~You have to~~ WP expect you to install it such that it can modify its install folders - all of them. Security-fucking-nightmare. It will use incoming requests to trigger "cron" jobs (which can include self-upgrades), via a non-loopback HTTP request. It falls apart under any…

After a decade of dealing with a fleet of wordpress sites (most of our smaller clients has a wordpress site), our team has settled on a workflow when dealing with wordpress sites for our clients: - a custom docker image suitable for use in docker/kubernetes environment. Vanilla wodpress docker image is not suitable for most of our needs, so we build our own images which includes everything we need an nothing more. -…

Just a quick note regarding Beaver Builder: when the Full Site Editor arrive on WordPress this year, we will be able to use native functionality to build the entire website, without relying on a third-party page builder to do this.

Re: Whitehouse.gov Chooses WordPress, Again

#252

Post by marc_io »

thayne wrote: post #45
westoque wrote: post #4

I hope we again see the value of using systems like Wordpress for it’s simplicity in getting a blog/website setup and easily modify content. Lately most of the modern marketing websites I see is built using gatsby and next.js. Having been talking to different content/marketing teams, they hate it so much because of the complexity it brings. Editing content? Sign in to this headless CRM app, want a form? Go sign in to…

From an operations perspective, gatsby and next.js are much simpler though. You are just deploying static content behind a webserver or even something like s3. Horizontal scaling is almost trivial. With wordpress though, you have to worry about a database as well, scaling is more complicated, you need to run php on your webservers (which has security implications), updates that include schema updates frequently requi…

This is why I generally recommend a solution like Publii (also Open Source) for simple sites that don't need extreme flexibility. It's “client friendly“ as WordPress, but generates static content in nature.

Re: Whitehouse.gov Chooses WordPress, Again

#253

Post by marc_io »

kortilla wrote: post #142
thayne wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we are talking about different things. I'm not talking about static assets that you use in your site. I mean the entire site is static, and thus doesn't require any database or any server-side page generation. Which means not only that it is easier to scale since you don't even have any state in the database, but each node can also handle more traffic, because it is doing less. (And if you something like s3 o…

> I think we are talking about different things. No, you aren’t. Wordpress has plugins to generate static html for all of the posts so visitors can be served without database hits.

There are also webhosts that specialize exactly in this kind of feature, generating those static assets and hosting them for you.

Re: Whitehouse.gov Chooses WordPress, Again

#254

Post by marc_io »

stickfigure wrote: post #132
kristopolous wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wordpress also has a really rich ecosystem of mature and widely used plugins that are quite easy to install. The podcast ones for instance, they'll allow you to schedule the publishing of a new episode, then upload the episode to all the major platforms, format the images, titles and descriptions automatically for the different platforms, cross post to the social media accounts announcing the new episode, allow you t…

> rich ecosystem of mature and widely used plugins ...which is a bit like Russian Roulette.

For the uninitiated, yes. This is no different from other CMSs that offers plugins from third-party developers.

Re: Whitehouse.gov Chooses WordPress, Again

#255

Post by marc_io »

earthboundkid wrote: post #136
jakelazaroff wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that because WordPress is simple , though? There are similar CMSes you can use with e.g. Gatsby. They’re just a glorified build systems, after all — there’s nothing inherently complex about the content management experience. And on the flip side, it’s possible to load up WordPress with enough plugins that it becomes a nightmare to use. I think we see people choose WordPress because it’s familiar, popular, battle-t…

Wordpress makes sense if the goals are: - Big upfront design - Leverage existing plugins to minimize new development - Use managed hosting - Hand off to non-technical or semi-technical people and spin down development to just occasional contract work If you actually have a FTE developer, it doesn’t fit as well at all. Among other problems, it does not work with a git centric development flow, which any modern dev wil…

> it does not work with a git centric development flow, which any modern dev will insist on.

Yes, it does. Just use Trellis and Bedrock.

Re: Whitehouse.gov Chooses WordPress, Again

#256

Post by marc_io »

Glyptodon wrote: post #83
westoque wrote: post #4

I hope we again see the value of using systems like Wordpress for it’s simplicity in getting a blog/website setup and easily modify content. Lately most of the modern marketing websites I see is built using gatsby and next.js. Having been talking to different content/marketing teams, they hate it so much because of the complexity it brings. Editing content? Sign in to this headless CRM app, want a form? Go sign in to…

Is there a CMS that has a Wordpress-like admin panel and content editing tools that builds and deploys the needed updates to a static site when you save an article, etc.?

This looks like Publii: https://getpublii.com/ Much more client-oriented than Getsby, Jeckyl or Hugo.

Re: Whitehouse.gov Chooses WordPress, Again

#257

Post by marc_io »

ehnto wrote: post #191
westoque wrote: post #4

I hope we again see the value of using systems like Wordpress for it’s simplicity in getting a blog/website setup and easily modify content. Lately most of the modern marketing websites I see is built using gatsby and next.js. Having been talking to different content/marketing teams, they hate it so much because of the complexity it brings. Editing content? Sign in to this headless CRM app, want a form? Go sign in to…

I have been thinking about what solution is for this. Do you think users would be happy with a WordPress backed headless app? The other issue is that visual content editing in WordPress is pretty tricky. Site owners want cool modern design, but editable in the WordPress admin, and meeting them in the middle has proven difficult using Gutenberg. They often find the new UI brittle and difficult to work with, even for c…

> They often find the new UI brittle and difficult to work with, even for core WP blocks.

There's a new (official) UI system in the works that aims to solve usability issues in WordPress components.

https://g2-components.com/

Re: Whitehouse.gov Chooses WordPress, Again

#258

Post by marc_io »

perardi wrote: post #42
julianlam wrote: post #2

In this age where the trend is JAM stack, it is refreshing to see that something battle-tested like WordPress was chosen. There's a reason WP has withstood the test of time. (WordPress developers being a dime a dozen also help make the case)

Are we at the point that creating and editing a page in a JAM stack site is as easy as WordPress for non-technical users? Not a snarky or leading question, I honestly don’t know. I use Hugo for my own internal design things, because I want partials and such, but I have no idea where the ecosystem is at for the “we need a poli-sci intern to copyedit this” use case.

There are already solutions for this, like Stackbit and Publii.

Re: Whitehouse.gov Chooses WordPress, Again

#259

Post by marc_io »

hardwaresofton wrote: post #127
julianlam wrote: post #2

In this age where the trend is JAM stack, it is refreshing to see that something battle-tested like WordPress was chosen. There's a reason WP has withstood the test of time. (WordPress developers being a dime a dozen also help make the case)

I think if WP ever finds a way to do two things: - continuously serialize WP to static files - Make it easier to work with Wordpress as a CRM (No Code or at the very least don't force developers to touch PHP) JAM stack would near instantly cease to make any business sense (though developers would still love using it of course). A lot of the issues with Wordpress are sort of long-tail -- combinations of plugins exposi…

> continuously serialize WP to static files

Any cache plugin for WordPress does this already, but if you mean something that does this in order to host elsewhere (like in Netlify), WP2Static is a solution.

Re: Whitehouse.gov Chooses WordPress, Again

#260

Post by angulardragon03 »

jeromenerf wrote: post #213
wvenable wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does no one else ever have users want to setup content to go live at specific dates and times? Static site generators are great for truly static content but that's extremely rare anywhere where content is frequently edited.

Hugo metadata allows to define a publication date for content. Then you need to run the Hugo build periodically to have the content published. The hugo cli has options to build "drafts" and "futures" so that you can preview them. I have used Hugo in the past to generate websites from external content sources, such as trello, gitlab, GitHub, RSS feeds, Dropbox, headless CMSes, etc. Some of them provided webhooks to tr…

Just wanted to add that I use Hugo in combination with a super simple CI/CD pipeline, and I just rsync the public/ directory every time the pipeline runs with the delete option enabled. This makes it relatively trivial to delete content after the fact, because I can just delete the content from the repository and have the pipeline remove it.
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