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Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

nbloom.people.stanford.edu

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Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#371

Post by pts_ »

anonytrary wrote: post #292

This is ironic coming from Stanford, who is currently fucking up every single aspect of their handling of covid, as many Stanford students will attest to. Colleges are basically scammers at this point. The whole benefit of going to college is being able to meet like-minded smart, young people like yourself. Remote college isn't a thing and never will be. College is about people, as much as it is about learning. The u…

I learned more about working independently from reading linux manuals and irc chats after high school than in 12 years of school or 5 years of college.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#372

Post by the-smug-one »

pantalaimon wrote: post #355
ascar wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a German university and fortunately most universities here still believe that their job is to enable learning and that university is as much about learning to learn and learning to live than it is about the content. In contrast to school this means the motivation has to come from the students and there is no mandatory attendance. I for one was glad that I didn't have to sit in lectures that I can learn in l…

> Not attending class doesn't mean you have no human interaction Well currently that's the case either way > there are tons of other options for human interaction like sport clubs. Yea but you won't meet people there who are into the same field of study as you are. At Uni you get to meet people who have chosen the same path as you have, often people very much alike you. You are working together on tasks, explain the…

You can separate the socialising and the educational parts of the university experience.

For a large majority of courses I simply did not attend to lectures, it's a lot faster to learn on your own. Yet, I could have gone to the social nights that the CS chapter held every week and mingled if I wanted to.

But yes, the lack of separation of studying and private living in a one room apartment sucked during Covid. Of course, in a regular school year I could just take the subway to my uni or uni library to work there.

The bad parts of the remote experience will go away.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#373

Post by jasonkester »

anonytrary wrote: post #292

This is ironic coming from Stanford, who is currently fucking up every single aspect of their handling of covid, as many Stanford students will attest to. Colleges are basically scammers at this point. The whole benefit of going to college is being able to meet like-minded smart, young people like yourself. Remote college isn't a thing and never will be. College is about people, as much as it is about learning. The u…

I don't know, man. Young You sounds like a very different person to Young Me.

If my first employer had told young 20-something Me "I'm afraid we're not going to let you come in and sit in this felt cube every day after all. Instead we're going to ask that you fly to Thailand and work from a laptop on the beach from here on out.", I would not have reacted by explaining how work is a social thing that needs to happen in person.

I spent the first 10 years of my working life focused on get myself into a position where I could do exactly that. As soon as it was even a little bit feasible to do so, I made the jump and haven't looked back.

It's interesting watching the entire software world get handed young Me's dream on a plate, and seeing so many people wanting their cubicles back.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#374

Post by spion »

pantalaimon wrote: post #355
ascar wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a German university and fortunately most universities here still believe that their job is to enable learning and that university is as much about learning to learn and learning to live than it is about the content. In contrast to school this means the motivation has to come from the students and there is no mandatory attendance. I for one was glad that I didn't have to sit in lectures that I can learn in l…

> Not attending class doesn't mean you have no human interaction Well currently that's the case either way > there are tons of other options for human interaction like sport clubs. Yea but you won't meet people there who are into the same field of study as you are. At Uni you get to meet people who have chosen the same path as you have, often people very much alike you. You are working together on tasks, explain the…

GP is right, you don't necessarily need any of that for effective studying. Its very possible to set up the remote equivalents for students learning together (e.g. discord) if this is done well.

Its much harder to establish the social connection, that part is true.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#375

Post by graphtrader »

amw-zero wrote: post #155
Fordec wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these tackle the one aspect that trumps everything else in the corporate world. Is this better for the company? Even if the majority of companies see things this way, they will return to the office. But those that succeed, survive, thrive or dominate a market will do whatever that makes them successful along the way. It doesn't matter if people like routine if the other guy beats you on revenue, time to marke…

Working together in person has to be 10 times more effective. Major doubt that anyone thinks remote working is actually more effective from the companies perspective. The only argument I ever here is that antisocial people prefer not seeing other people and getting their work done alone.

I just can't disagree more. If you are a productive worker and very social the office is a huge negative. Because I am social everyone always wants to talk to me in the office. All remote has really done is given me an office with a locked door that I now control who and when I can be disrupted and distracted.

If you are a slacker at home I am sure you slacked in the office as well.

To me it all depends if we are talking from a middle management perspective or not. The company is better off but the redundancy of middle management is on full display right now.

There will be huge opportunity though for companies that get leaner middle management wise and poach high performing remote talent across the country. This to me seems very obvious.

Not to mention, it is not like you are going to have the luxury as a company of cutting remote cost post COVID. Remote cost is sunk cost for the remainder of my working life.

I assume the biggest factor right now with how the company spins the narrative with remote work has to do with what things look like with the timing and length of the office lease.

At some point in the future though, the cost of the office will become a competitive disadvantage.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#376

Post by icedchocolate »

nilkn wrote: post #312
anonytrary wrote: post #292

This is ironic coming from Stanford, who is currently fucking up every single aspect of their handling of covid, as many Stanford students will attest to. Colleges are basically scammers at this point. The whole benefit of going to college is being able to meet like-minded smart, young people like yourself. Remote college isn't a thing and never will be. College is about people, as much as it is about learning. The u…

> if your company is purely remote Pure remote companies are likely to be rare. But we may see a proliferation of hybrid companies that maintain office spaces but allow certain roles to work remotely most of the time. I think your analysis here is one-sided and is ignoring all the major problems with 100%-work-in-office cultures. Housing costs are absolutely out of control in major urban centers, and newcomers are sa…

The commenter wasn’t talking about all people having to work at the office all of the time, merely that fully remote was not good and not favoured by young engineers. And he was spot on. I’m a young engineer in my 20s and if I don’t get in-person training soon (I started over a year ago and haven’t gotten any since we’ve been remote the entire time), I’m going to quit and go elsewhere. This is in spite of working in the best team of engineers in my city, working on an awesome problem. But I can’t sacrifice my career for their desire to work from home.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#377

Post by konjin »

jasonkester wrote: post #373
anonytrary wrote: post #292

This is ironic coming from Stanford, who is currently fucking up every single aspect of their handling of covid, as many Stanford students will attest to. Colleges are basically scammers at this point. The whole benefit of going to college is being able to meet like-minded smart, young people like yourself. Remote college isn't a thing and never will be. College is about people, as much as it is about learning. The u…

I don't know, man. Young You sounds like a very different person to Young Me. If my first employer had told young 20-something Me "I'm afraid we're not going to let you come in and sit in this felt cube every day after all. Instead we're going to ask that you fly to Thailand and work from a laptop on the beach from here on out.", I would not have reacted by explaining how work is a social thing that needs to happen i…

>If my first employer had told young 20-something Me "I'm afraid we're not going to let you come in and sit in this felt cube every day after all. Instead we're going to ask that you fly to Thailand and work from a laptop on the beach from here on out.", I would not have reacted by explaining how work is a social thing that needs to happen in person.

I'd kill for a felt cube.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#378

Post by j4yav »

jasonkester wrote: post #373
anonytrary wrote: post #292

This is ironic coming from Stanford, who is currently fucking up every single aspect of their handling of covid, as many Stanford students will attest to. Colleges are basically scammers at this point. The whole benefit of going to college is being able to meet like-minded smart, young people like yourself. Remote college isn't a thing and never will be. College is about people, as much as it is about learning. The u…

I don't know, man. Young You sounds like a very different person to Young Me. If my first employer had told young 20-something Me "I'm afraid we're not going to let you come in and sit in this felt cube every day after all. Instead we're going to ask that you fly to Thailand and work from a laptop on the beach from here on out.", I would not have reacted by explaining how work is a social thing that needs to happen i…

You've put it really well here. I lived in the south bay for a period in my 20s, but man, in no way was living in San Jose and working in a cubicle the social lifestyle that I dreamed of.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#379

Post by j4yav »

rorroe53 wrote: post #342
anonytrary wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may be misinterpreting me. I am not advocating for pure in-person, I am only advocating against pure remote. I believe a hybrid approach is best.

I agree, hybrid is definitely the best for most companies. Some in-person collaboration and socializing is always going to beneficial, even if rest of the work is done remotely. Having a long commute isn't that bad either if you only do it once or twice a week, so it gives people much more freedom over where they can live.

GitLab seems to be doing ok, and they get together in person only once every 8 or 9 months. Or would you consider that hybrid also?

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#380

Post by joelbluminator »

ianai wrote: post #280
phillipcarter wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another big negative is the sunk cost fallacy of acquiring and/or owning office space. If you have all this space, you need to fill it with people. Ritualistic behavior isn't only exhibited by rank and file employees.

I wonder whether WFH will make work more ‘marginal value-add’ - it’s probably far easier to hire/fire someone remote than an office setting, for instance. Maybe some work will start to resemble Uber more than traditional work?

If I understand what you mean I totally agree; remote work isn't good for say developers who mostly got by by being good politicians. We probably all worked with people like that. You will be judged more by your actual output than by how well you give presentations or get along with bosses. On the other hand it's terrific for people who got pushed out of the job market due to ageism or other biases. It matters less who you are now, and matters more how well u actually get the job done.
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