Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

nbloom.people.stanford.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 570 posts

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#211

Post by j4yav »

amw-zero wrote: post #155
Fordec wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these tackle the one aspect that trumps everything else in the corporate world. Is this better for the company? Even if the majority of companies see things this way, they will return to the office. But those that succeed, survive, thrive or dominate a market will do whatever that makes them successful along the way. It doesn't matter if people like routine if the other guy beats you on revenue, time to marke…

Working together in person has to be 10 times more effective. Major doubt that anyone thinks remote working is actually more effective from the companies perspective. The only argument I ever here is that antisocial people prefer not seeing other people and getting their work done alone.

I worked at a highly successful all-remote company (pre-COVID) with over 1500 employees and it was certainly not filled with antisocial or otherwise damaged people, and it was clear we were just as effective there with complete freedom to work on our own schedules and from wherever we wanted.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#212

Post by j4yav »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #146
irrational wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. This is the main reason I prefer remote working. I don’t like socializing. I’m there to work, not to chit chat. You’re not my friend, your a fellow worker. 2. Time to get a better manager who trusts you. 3. Commuting is a waste of time. I roll out of bed and immediately start working. The company loses on time I could be working by having me commute. 4. Yeah, I definitely can’t relate to this one.

For something you're going to spend your life doing, it's a horrible prospect to not expect to make friends at work. As a child did you spend 12 years not making friends in school, since school is for learning and not socialization?

My experience coming from remote working for several years was I made friends in my neighborhood through volunteering and local places/events rather than at the office. In a lot of ways it has worked out so much better that way.

Of course all that is on hold with lockdown now, which I think is giving people the impression that remote working means no friends.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#213

Post by bradlys »

greedo wrote: post #115
bradlys wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it also depends on your commute. I look forward to the office because I’ll always live 15 minutes away. I’ll either take my bicycle or a motorcycle. (Both of which can be fun - wheelies on either are great!) The in person meetings were more frequent for me because I could just stop by a persons desk to see how they were doing. I can’t do that online and the culture is much more closed down. Forget about going…

(Assuming COVID is solved), why couldn't you meet up with a coworker for a lunch?

Why do you assume anyone would live near each other in a remote heavy environment?

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#214

Post by j4yav »

spear wrote: post #170
ashtonkem wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average Millenial worker will job hop every 1-3 years. While it’s good to be friendly with your colleagues, you also shouldn’t build friend networks that get broken and reformed with such regularity.

Millenial or not, those friend networks are still how you'll be able to find the better jobs when you're older.

I've gotten several jobs through colleagues, none of which were based on having made an actual friendship in the sense that I hung out with any of these people in my free time. It was more like networking and was based on professional experience and capability.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#215

Post by kulig »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #146
irrational wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. This is the main reason I prefer remote working. I don’t like socializing. I’m there to work, not to chit chat. You’re not my friend, your a fellow worker. 2. Time to get a better manager who trusts you. 3. Commuting is a waste of time. I roll out of bed and immediately start working. The company loses on time I could be working by having me commute. 4. Yeah, I definitely can’t relate to this one.

For something you're going to spend your life doing, it's a horrible prospect to not expect to make friends at work. As a child did you spend 12 years not making friends in school, since school is for learning and not socialization?

Lmao school is definitely not for learning. School is daycare, basically.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#216

Post by bradlys »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #210
bradlys wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it also depends on your commute. I look forward to the office because I’ll always live 15 minutes away. I’ll either take my bicycle or a motorcycle. (Both of which can be fun - wheelies on either are great!) The in person meetings were more frequent for me because I could just stop by a persons desk to see how they were doing. I can’t do that online and the culture is much more closed down. Forget about going…

If you live in a small enough place where everyone is 10-15min from the office then you can easily organize the after hour events post covid. But let’s not force people to spend hundreds of hours in their cars, risking their lives and the lives of strangers just so we can have the convenience to interrupt their deep work in person. I highly recommend seeking relationships outside of work. Jobs don’t love you (back).

I have friends outside of work. I’m just saying work is also a great way to make friends for certain types of people.

Not everyone lives near the office. That’s the point I’m making. I chose to live near the office (some of my coworkers chose to live further away - it is a choice, they all can afford living near the office like I have). If we start going down remote, my coworkers will move away to other states because the cost of living in the Bay Area is too high for them. Also, many of them prefer to be near old families or friends. So, their likelihood of staying near work is relatively low.

Even during covid, about half the company has moved away from the bay. Many going back to another country or moving to another coast, etc. They’ll only come back if they absolutely have to.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#217

Post by myself248 »

aurbano wrote: post #113
lambda_obrien wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to replace the "work as social outlet" with something else. It's not the office anyone wants, it's the connection, we're just lacking the connection part to make remote work... well... work.

I’ve been saying this for a while.. we are missing local communities in today’s society. People used to go to church and do religious events and things sometimes during the week - this is all gone now, and I wish we had an alternative that didn’t rely on religion, just based on the local community somehow. Community centers 2.0 or whatever, but a place where people have a reason to go. I can only think of classes whi…

I wouldn't say I was exactly _surprised_ by this dynamic in hackerspaces, but perhaps I was caught off-guard by how strong it is. The tools and projects really are secondary in a space that has a strong and welcoming community.

This next bit is extrapolation on my part, but I suspect the hackerspace demographic has particularly minimal church attendance, and that may contribute to our appreciation of "third place" dynamics elsewhere.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#218

Post by Ancalagon »

yourapostasy wrote: post #177
Fordec wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd trade 20 minutes extra socializing at my first place with the people I love or my third place with the people of similar interests for an hour of socializing with people talking about a sport I'm not into or their kids. I also find that having to do more stuff over email, messaging and zoom has been great for reigning in an overly narcissistic manipulative coworker because their actions are much more record-able…

> ...do more stuff over email, messaging and zoom has been great... WFH forces the kind of auditable accountability upon everyone I've taken for granted as necessary to thrive as a consultant. This popularizes communication modalities into the open long overdue. Use of more granular project tracking has gone up considerably as a coordination point to communicate early and often between teams, purely to reduce meeting…

Does socialization really matter to management and the business profits at large though?

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#219

Post by j4yav »

croutonwagon wrote: post #4

The problem is multi-faceted. While this is entirely anecdotal I have observed a LOT of time theft by employees. And been asked more than ever to investigate employee behavior (even when I normally try and advise against the approach) Some more egregious than others. While most probably aren’t going to awol for a day at a time I know a LOT of people that now spend working hours doing leisure things. Maybe that’s a su…

There is a way to look at the slacking part more simply, I think - if you have an employee that you sincerely have no way to tell if they are producing anything or not, and neither can anyone else at your company, then why do you have them? What was the job description meant to have been when you hired them and how did you end up here?

A solution for this could be managing to outcomes, and setting more clear expectations around their role.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#220

Post by j4yav »

lrossi wrote: post #58
croutonwagon wrote: post #4

The problem is multi-faceted. While this is entirely anecdotal I have observed a LOT of time theft by employees. And been asked more than ever to investigate employee behavior (even when I normally try and advise against the approach) Some more egregious than others. While most probably aren’t going to awol for a day at a time I know a LOT of people that now spend working hours doing leisure things. Maybe that’s a su…

> While most probably aren’t going to awol for a day at a time I know a LOT of people that now spend working hours doing leisure things Oh, the horror! > people are shifting work hours to ones more of convenience (again anecdotal) They have no shame! > But even some of my direct reports will slack significantly more if they think I’m not online. Responses that are normally in minutes take hours etc.I have to now prob…

Hey, I'm working on an app meant to help with this (well, it won't fix the instincts of bad managers, but it does provide an "at your convenience" place for topics that might have otherwise been a meeting or a shoulder tap. I'd be curious what you think about it. If you're up to share your thoughts there's a link and my email in my profile.
Post reply on HN