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Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client

pidgin.im

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Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client

#441

Post by sneak »

wruza wrote: post #424
sneak wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but there still needs to be a server somewhere that has the app developer's client certificate, connected to Apple, that knows when you get a DM and can send that zero-content "wake up and check your DMs" packet to your phone via APNS, which means it needs (given current apps permissions models) access to your DMs without you.

There is no need for this “server somewhere”, and APNS can’t have your message, mainly for two reasons: First, that “server” is Signal server itself. When a message arrives at it, it simply commands Apple to wake up your app, for it to call home, and that’s it. It is preconfigured to do that (and GCM as well). Second, all Signal messages are end to end encrypted and neither of Apple, Signal, Google, your ISP, any ser…

We're talking about federated/decentralized protocols that Pidgin serves as the type of client for, in a thread about why we don't see things like Pidgin on iOS.

In a centralized system where the mobile app is made by the same people as the IM server, of course the IM server can send a notification to the app (such as is done in e2e stuff like Signal, or in non-e2e such as Telegram).

That falls apart when you're talking about, say, ActivityPub on an instance you run yourself, or one not operated by the vendor of the IM app. The developer's server can't know when to send you a notification without having some knowledge, from your own e.g. IRC, ActivityPub, or Matrix server, that you have received a new DM.

The Matrix/Element people have addressed this by running one centralized notification service for every single client of the Matrix/Element iOS app.

Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client

#442

Post by sneak »

_-___________-_ wrote: post #420
sneak wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but there still needs to be a server somewhere that has the app developer's client certificate, connected to Apple, that knows when you get a DM and can send that zero-content "wake up and check your DMs" packet to your phone via APNS, which means it needs (given current apps permissions models) access to your DMs without you.

It doesn't need access to the content of the messages.

Sure, but it needs to know that there are new messages. I don't think that's a separate permission on any (e.g.) ActivityPub/XMPP/IRC server implementation today.

Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client

#443

Post by ForHackernews »

michaelgrafl wrote: post #314
ForHackernews wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when a technology becomes convenient enough so we don't have to think about it while it fulfills it's purpose, Is a tragically limited view of what computers are. Programmable computers are fundamentally different from steam engines. A steam engine will never be anything except a steam engine. Most of the manufactured objects we encounter in everyday life are similar: single- (or occasionally multi-) purpose goods…

Nope. A computer can only do what the apps installed on it let you do, unless you're an IT person. The things is that you don't need to be an IT person to use applications, as it used to be. So fewer people learn IT skills just so they can play a game or layout a document. I know very little about cars but drive one daily. I can see how other people don't bother learning about computers just so they can write up a re…

> A computer can only do what the apps installed on it let you do, unless you're an IT person.

As recently as the early 2000s, ordinary users were comfortable searching out and installing new software. I remember Napster becoming absolutely massive, and it wasn't because the IT folks installed it for users.

Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client

#444

Post by ForHackernews »

Elv13 wrote: post #303
ForHackernews wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when a technology becomes convenient enough so we don't have to think about it while it fulfills it's purpose, Is a tragically limited view of what computers are. Programmable computers are fundamentally different from steam engines. A steam engine will never be anything except a steam engine. Most of the manufactured objects we encounter in everyday life are similar: single- (or occasionally multi-) purpose goods…

On the contrary, the analogy is very good. The steam engine represents power. Power can be used for a limitless number of applications. The steam engine is the CPU. You input energy (pressure/electricity) and extract work (mechanical/computational).

I don't think it's the same. A steam engine is more like a wagon or a truck. The steam engine can power many things; a truck can haul many different sorts of goods, but they're still fundamentally single-purpose. The engine powers, the wagon hauls.

I guess you could say a computer computes, but that's using an overly broad term to deliberately elide the point.

Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client

#445

Post by sneak »

slumpt_ wrote: post #439
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spyware isn't about the name you slap on it ('analytics'). Its about not having permission. That's the whole ball game.

Every. Single. Product. Everyone. Tracks behaviors to improve the product. It’s table stakes. Often without a disclaimer! Welcome to the internet. Be upset about it if you must but it is not equivalent to “spyware.”

This is entirely false. Debian not only doesn't do this, it patches out such tomfoolery in anything they distribute.

It's a recent trend, but it's nowhere near ubiquitous, and it's still a major violation of consent to exfiltrate a user's data without asking, even if every piece of software in the world did it (as you erroneously claimed).

When software spies on you without permission, there's a name for that type of software.

Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client

#446

Post by yoz-y »

simple_phrases wrote: post #414
yoz-y wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your own remark about tablets undermine your argument though. iPads and MS Surfaces have been arguably the best 'artist tablets' and they don't need to be hooked up to another computer.

There's a difference between a Wacom tablet and a tablet computer.

I know. I think that for many people an iPad (or a surface) are better drawing tablets than Wacoms (cheaper, lighter, better screens) and can very well be used for other things than content consumption. (of course Wacom tablets have their benefits too)

Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client

#447

Post by ezst »

netflixandkill wrote: post #417
krisgenre wrote: post #95

Ah! the glorious days of integrated chat clients. I had friends of MSN Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, GTalk and for a very limited time ICQ (Actually it was the same guys on all networks :) ). There weren't any network effort, people were willing to try out different IMs for their uniqueness. Lots of companies were trying to produce integrated chat clients - Pidgin, Meebo, Trillian, Digsby and a whole lot of guys on Mob…

It remains something of a testament to human stupidity and avarice that chat to most of the world in most languages with pretty good security and even some video support was basically a solved problem in like 2008 and a complete clusterfuck again by 2016.

And probably soon enough again with the crap being pulled by FB to turn away from the WhatsApp monopoly. I hope this time people will understand that the app isn't what matters, but the protocol is (with providers coming and going without that meaning to have to restart over and over again somewhere else and losing everything and everyone in the process).

I wish for open and federated protocols to gain recognition and adoption up to a point where we could just move on with the drama, ah!

Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client

#448

Post by rw_grim »

TingPing wrote: post #351
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GTK on macOS is completely fine, unless newer versions of GTK have borked it. We use GTK2 for Ardour (cross platform DAW) and there are almost no issues. I did contribute numerous important patches for the quartz backend along the way.

GTK3 is slightly better than GTK2 on macOS and GTK4 is getting a lot better with a paid developer working on it.

Pidgin will be in Gtk4 one day.. But right now we're still trying to replace deprecated API that we're using with Gtk3...

Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client

#449

Post by rw_grim »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #408
mqus wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But facebook messenger at least used to work, I know I used it with pidgin before

Facebook used to support XMPP. Which predates their separate Messanger app.

There's modern facebook support with https://github.com/dequis/purple-facebook/

Re: Pidgin – A Universal Chat Client

#450

Post by rw_grim »

maqp wrote: post #418

Pidgin. A flock of zero-days flying in formation. If you're going to use it, PROTECT CONTENT by using the OTR end-to-end encryption plugin https://otr.cypherpunks.ca/ WARNING: OTR is opt-in E2EE for every session, and that uses old cryptographic primitives (DH-1536 etc.). OTRv4 is in the works but that's going to take years before you have an upgrade: https://github.com/otrv4/otrv4 (Note that Pidgin-OTR v.4.0.2 IS TH…

We'd love to hear about these zero days over at security@pidgin.im so we can fix them or you can just keep spouting about stuff that afaict doesn't actual exist.
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