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Game Design Perspective: Stardew Valley (2020)

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Re: Game Design Perspective: Stardew Valley (2020)

#11

My criticism towards game designers is that they often analyze games from an abstract perspective, leaving out important details that contribute to the success of the game: High frame rate, stability, good quality animations, color palette/art style/fonts that are consistent with the game fiction, UI usability, soundtrack, community, abscence of cheaters... just to name a few. You can have a great game, but if it's u…

Are we talking about Stardew though? Because IMO it excels in half your criteria and is pleasantly adequate in the rest.

If you mean games in general I mostly agree. Most teams just don’t seem to prioritize these things and it can be frustrating. Especially when the core concepts are so promising.

There are a lot of reasons to idolize John Carmack, but my favorite is his lifelong obsession with latency. End to end. From the player's fingers, through the hardware, through all the many software layers, back through the hardware and into the player’s eyes. From Doom to the Oculus Rift architecture. This is why to me Id games feel and play like no others. He realized from the beginning that latency matters more than any other factor in competitive FPS games, and prioritized it as much as the rendering he’s more renowned for.

Re: Game Design Perspective: Stardew Valley (2020)

#12

My criticism towards game designers is that they often analyze games from an abstract perspective, leaving out important details that contribute to the success of the game: High frame rate, stability, good quality animations, color palette/art style/fonts that are consistent with the game fiction, UI usability, soundtrack, community, abscence of cheaters... just to name a few. You can have a great game, but if it's u…

Depth vs breadth is an issue with the study of every medium, and with games particularly, there is a staggering amount of potential breadth. Coverage of detail results in "top 10 tips" articles, coverage of the broad strokes results in an oversimplification.

My current approach to game design revolves around a three-stage process: find well-justified principles, set concrete success benchmarks based off the principles, and routinely do studies of specific elements to test the benchmarks. This is something that can be applied fractally, from the top level down into every last asset, and isn't really specific to games, but it lets me cross the boundaries between media, ask and answer detailed questions like "what form of music is most appropriate for this scene?" A question like that isn't adequately answered by personal taste, and really benefits from a principled framework starting from basic philosophy-of-truth questions about the concepts.

And this goes for stuff with the software and UX, too: requirements around stability, performance, ease of use and so forth appear in the success benchmarks and enforce a rough shape for the featureset.

When the game "doesn't work" despite meeting technical standards, it's usually because there's a conceptual issue where the ideas the game explores are presented incoherently, where features are added because "this feature appeared in another game and it was fun there" and the contradictions implied by the juxtaposition are ignored. When the game goes in that direction, it makes players throw up their hands and say, "I don't know what this game is about." It's also harder to make such a game, because you end up laboring to paper over those contradictions with complicated special casing.

Re: Game Design Perspective: Stardew Valley (2020)

#13

My criticism towards game designers is that they often analyze games from an abstract perspective, leaving out important details that contribute to the success of the game: High frame rate, stability, good quality animations, color palette/art style/fonts that are consistent with the game fiction, UI usability, soundtrack, community, abscence of cheaters... just to name a few. You can have a great game, but if it's u…

I mean part of it comes from what game designers have control or responsibility for. Game designers across the industry may or may not have the ability to strongly influence or control many of those factors that you mentioned (dependent on the scale and organization of the job and game). However, designing the core gameplay loop and player incentives is nearly always a core responsibility of a game designer.

They are also often not mentioned because many of them are a different type of problem solving. High frame rate, stability, good quality animations are all effectively engineering and resource challenges. No one seeks out to not achieve those things, everyone knows that they're important. But the success of achieving those are typically driven by aspects completely out of control of a game designer (unless they are caused by gameplay mechanics or features that are just too technically taxing).

I mean really, it's right in the title isn't it? This is a game _DESIGN_ perspective, not a game implementation, or game marketing, or game post-launch community support retrospective.

Re: Game Design Perspective: Stardew Valley (2020)

#14
post #5

My criticism towards game designers is that they often analyze games from an abstract perspective, leaving out important details that contribute to the success of the game: High frame rate, stability, good quality animations, color palette/art style/fonts that are consistent with the game fiction, UI usability, soundtrack, community, abscence of cheaters... just to name a few. You can have a great game, but if it's u…

To apply what you're saying to a different media. I was a big star trek fan growing up. Around the time of enterprise, then going on to the reboot and new series i'd lost interest in star trek. The series changed in ways I didn't enjoy. Not to bash on them in any way and getting to my point. I've been recommended The Orville a bunch lately. After hearing what it was, I wasn't really interested, but finally i was push…

I have to agree with both your general point and your specific regarding The Orville.

I wasn't excited to watch it, because I don't find McFarlane funny (as a writer/showrunner and especially not as an actor), and because I think I've only ever enjoyed maybe one sci-fi parody ever. (2 if you count MST3K as "sci-fi"..?)

But my wife wanted to give it a shot because she's such a sci-fi nerd (even more than me), and you're right: they captured the utter essence of Star Trek so completely that I'm not entirely sure why he's not on a short list to do a serious Star Trek show/movie.

The qualities that make Star Trek so compelling (especially Next Generation and to a lesser extent DS9 and Voyager) are ever present in The Orville in spades. That it somehow manages to combine a very serious look at life in space with some pretty raunchy potty humor is nothing short of incredible.

I would fully support McFarlane (or whomever is responsible for that "essence" in Orville) doing a dramatic space opera, hands down, no question. That would be one hell of a show.

Not sure the market would bear it, unfortunately, though.

Re: Game Design Perspective: Stardew Valley (2020)

#15
I didn’t like Stardew Valley because I thought it was one of the most stressful games I’ve ever played. It gets a reputation for being relaxing, but I felt like the timer plus the variety put a lot of pressure on me to play efficiently and maximize each day. Was I just playing the game wrong?

Re: Game Design Perspective: Stardew Valley (2020)

#16
post #15

I didn’t like Stardew Valley because I thought it was one of the most stressful games I’ve ever played. It gets a reputation for being relaxing, but I felt like the timer plus the variety put a lot of pressure on me to play efficiently and maximize each day. Was I just playing the game wrong?

I felt the same, but my gf became so obsessed with it we eventually broke up

Re: Game Design Perspective: Stardew Valley (2020)

#17
post #15

I didn’t like Stardew Valley because I thought it was one of the most stressful games I’ve ever played. It gets a reputation for being relaxing, but I felt like the timer plus the variety put a lot of pressure on me to play efficiently and maximize each day. Was I just playing the game wrong?

The game doesn't do a good job of explaining this, but, there is almost no benefit to min-maxing it. Absolutely nothing is gated off by taking your time to do it. If it takes you seven in-game years to finish the community center, there's no downside. It's a common misconception that you need to complete everything as quickly as possible. I think this stems from the fact that after your second year you get a kind of "grade". But this doesn't matter since you can choose to get graded again whenever you want!

Some people find the min-maxing to be part of the fun, but it sounds like it stressed you out, so you just shouldn't play it that way. Take as long as you want, the game will not punish you for doing that.

Re: Game Design Perspective: Stardew Valley (2020)

#18
post #15

I didn’t like Stardew Valley because I thought it was one of the most stressful games I’ve ever played. It gets a reputation for being relaxing, but I felt like the timer plus the variety put a lot of pressure on me to play efficiently and maximize each day. Was I just playing the game wrong?

I think so. It's true that there's a time limit per day but you have as many years as you want to accomplish any task.

Re: Game Design Perspective: Stardew Valley (2020)

#19
I used to be really into strategy games. When Starcraft 2 came out, I went hard on the competitive ladder. Then I got my first management job, and overnight I felt like I had no energy to play strategy games anymore. I found I needed to play FPS games to relax, which I had never done before. It was comical how immediate the switch was.

In the past year, I've taken a sabbatical from work in a conscious attempt to slow my life down. When the Stardew Valley 1.5 update came out, I tried to get back into it, having fond memories of the game years ago. I found it to be the most stressful experience. I couldn't handle playing something with such loosely defined goals.

The more time I spend analyzing what games hit and why, the more I feel like this is a poorly understood phenomenon that typical game design analysis cannot comprehend. 2020 saw many games hit purely because they complemented quarantine life well, for example. Among Us and Animal Crossing exploded in ways they wouldn't had we not felt like the world was chaotic and isolating. Stardew, I think, has a similar appeal that goes far beyond its game loops.

Re: Game Design Perspective: Stardew Valley (2020)

#20
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To apply what you're saying to a different media. I was a big star trek fan growing up. Around the time of enterprise, then going on to the reboot and new series i'd lost interest in star trek. The series changed in ways I didn't enjoy. Not to bash on them in any way and getting to my point. I've been recommended The Orville a bunch lately. After hearing what it was, I wasn't really interested, but finally i was push…

I have to agree with both your general point and your specific regarding The Orville. I wasn't excited to watch it, because I don't find McFarlane funny (as a writer/showrunner and especially not as an actor), and because I think I've only ever enjoyed maybe one sci-fi parody ever. (2 if you count MST3K as "sci-fi"..?) But my wife wanted to give it a shot because she's such a sci-fi nerd (even more than me), and you'…

>I wasn't excited to watch it, because I don't find McFarlane funny (as a writer/showrunner and especially not as an actor), and because I think I've only ever enjoyed maybe one sci-fi parody ever. (2 if you count MST3K as "sci-fi"..?)

Yeah, his comedy's a bit much for me most of the time. He's got some funny stuff, but it's usually in between a whole lot of meh stuff.

I was honestly expecting family guy in space or something. I have to say, I was pleasantly surprised and happy to be wrong.

>I would fully support McFarlane (or whomever is responsible for that "essence" in Orville) doing a dramatic space opera, hands down, no question. That would be one hell of a show.

I ended up looking up more about the show and to be fair, the show does actually have some long time star trek people involved. Johnathan Frakes(Riker), Robert Duncan Macneil(Tom Paris) and Brannon Braga(worked on Voyager and enterprise) directed a bunch of episodes. There were also a ton of cameos by star trek actors throughout the show. So there was definitely a bunch of people working on the show who had been involved in star trek.

Oddly enough, back to the video game world there's also a few examples of tribute games playing off nostalgia made by members of the original staff that don't hold up to the originals they're emulating, which also shows just having original staff members isn't all it takes to capture that old greatness.

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