On a similar note, please don't send a private message to someone asking a technical question more suitable for a channel. It puts unfair pressure on the receiver, denies others who could help the opportunity to do so, and doesn't help others who have the same question (including the answer not being archived in search).
At my BigCorp just finding the right channel can be very difficult and channels can be a lightly monitored dead end. That being said I have no problem if someone says, “can you ask this on the Foobar channel?”
Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)
331–340 of 362 posts
Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)
#332>People who do this are generally trying to be polite by not jumping right into the request, like one would in person or on the phone - and that's great! Different people have different reasons but I notice that many people that do a naked "hi" / "hey" are trying to see if the receiver is present for an immediate reply. In other words, the sender deliberately wants a synchronous instead of asynchronous convo. They do…
That motivation is logical, but I think it's more considerate to type out just a few words so the recipient has some idea what's up. For example, "hi, i have a question about web config files" or "hi, i need help with a SQL query" or "hi, we may have a production issue" or "hi, i want to propose a change to how we do builds". This allows the recipient to prioritize. Just because they are present doesn't mean that now…
Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)
#333Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, the point is to say "hello" and nothing else. And wait for the other person to reply, I then assume it is safe to chat. This is obviously for more sensitive/professional settings but directly saying "we have had a 100M loss because of that M&A", even on a safe IM, is irresponsible because this is likely to pop up on their screen.
I don't get this at all. What happens if they reply to you - maybe hours later - when you are the one presenting?
Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)
#334>People who do this are generally trying to be polite by not jumping right into the request, like one would in person or on the phone - and that's great! Different people have different reasons but I notice that many people that do a naked "hi" / "hey" are trying to see if the receiver is present for an immediate reply. In other words, the sender deliberately wants a synchronous instead of asynchronous convo. They do…
[0] Not really instant, because "So-and-so is typing," and your productivity is hostage to their typing skills.
Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)
#335Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)
#336Gods, but this drives me absolutely nuts at work. Like OK, what?! It tells me nothing about the urgency of the matter, let alone what it relates to. So I can put it to the side and keep working - but it's going to be nagging at me "hmm, what if it's about x?". So now I've got to break focus and waste time just to find out how important it is, and what it even relates to. I much prefer "Hi, I have a question regarding…
If it's someone I don't know (megacorp here too!) I just ignore it altogether... They'll eventually give up and ask the actual question. It's harder if it's something I can't ethically ignore like my boss or a coworker. PS: One thing that really helps to get my attention is being someone that's actually nice to talk to. I have a LOT of time for people who are not all business and actually care about people. And the b…
This is my tactic too. About 50% of the time, they finally cave and just ask the question within a couple of days, and the other 50% of the time I never hear from them again!
Still annoys me though, as it's just one more thing in the back of my mind when I'm trying to focus on something.
Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)
#337>People who do this are generally trying to be polite by not jumping right into the request, like one would in person or on the phone - and that's great! Different people have different reasons but I notice that many people that do a naked "hi" / "hey" are trying to see if the receiver is present for an immediate reply. In other words, the sender deliberately wants a synchronous instead of asynchronous convo. They do…
Oh I have one friend like this. He's lurking there and typing occasionally "Hi" when he feels I might be there. I know that if I answer immediately, I'll lose half an hour of my life. So after seeing the message I deliberately wait a few hours, and then answer "hi" and immediately log out. I consider it rude to demand someone's attention for an extended period of time without asking for it first. At the beginning of…
You know that that's why he's saying 'hi' right? It's his way of asking before taking your attention. And if you don't want to, you can just wait until you do, or say 'sorry, busy'.
From what you say, it sounds like you both think that the other person is rude, but that you are doing it on purpose.
Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)
#338Earlier quoted context omitted.
Online status does not mean I am available, the online status tells my team that I am indeed, in my work day and they can message me and get a response when I'm actually available. Clocking in physically at your job tells your employer you're working, but it doesn't mean you're available immediately for their attention.
Yes text chat tools have too little engagement. I worked on a startup called Sococo (still exists; pivoted to be a WebRTC clone) that used a map. You could see each little bobblehead on the map, either in their office, in a conference room, in a break room, with our without their headset on. You clicked your guy into the room to conference with people in that room. If you didn't want to be bothered, you put your bobb…
I can imagine some people would totally not be into this, but I'm not one of them.
Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)
#339What's HN take on short messages vs long messages in slack/signal/whatsapp ? I was recently asked to make longer messages rather than short sentences when exposing ideas in the flow of the conversation (I think the manager was annoyed by incessant notifications on his phone but he could either keep the screen on or turn them off instead of telling me I could use shift-enter :D). I don't intend to change my style thou…
Yikes. Screw that noise, literally. Your messaging habit of sending each message fragment as a new notification is the most annoying. 5 messages to communicate one thought? You have no respect for other people or their attention and are so self centered that even at their explicit request you can’t use the shift key when hitting enter. You,re the type of communicator I’d have to look up Slack documentation to mute al…
> Your messaging habit of sending each message fragment as a new notification is the most annoying. 5 messages to communicate one thought?
Not 5 messages to send one thought.
3 different messages (each message being one full sentence) to send three distinct points that led to a fourth message being a conclusion.
> You have no respect for other people or their attention
That's a very broad statement about me based on a single specific instance of an event. Don't do that.
In a fucking semi-formal heated whatsapp conversation with 5 other people messaging back and forth ? Give me a break. It doesn't change anything to the flow.
Either he was reading and participating or he was not. If he was participating then it's all the same. Different messages are equivalent to punctuation, emphasis and bullet points. If he was not participating then he simply has to turn off notifications from everyone or the whole app if he doesn't want to be pinged. 103 messages instead of 100 is showing no respect ? As if.
> are so self centered that even at their explicit request you can’t use the shift key when hitting enter
Yeah, I won't because it's not needed and not justified at all. One giant fucking blob of text coming after all the other messages and being out of sync with the live conversation because you were busy writing your Proust version of your advice on a Whatsapp vs XMPP ? That's not how IRC, slack or anything ever worked. That's what email is for.
Especially when two minutes later he and another were firing "ok" and "testing" messages in the same conversation. So no, I don't take your accusation of being self-centered that well.
Want a practical point why it's better to split your ideas in different messages ?
Because then you can hit the reply button and every other participants know that this reply will be to that particular point. Not the pedantic but carefully crafted useless train of sentences and a thousand word long comment you slap in everyone's face. It's a conversation not a long distance snail mail relationship.
> You,re the type of communicator I’d have to look up Slack documentation to mute all messages. And forever more you would get no synchronous responses. And that’d be ok: you lack respect, you don’t deserve respect.
What's that ghetto outlook of respect you are trying to pull now ? Respect is not something you take off the table when the other side doesn't conform to what you think respect is. It's basically the opposite of what you should if you ever want to come to a compromise or a mutually beneficial solution to both parties.
Something clearly you are not ready to do. The type of communicator and self righteous person I'd have to look up Slack documentation to mute all messages.
PS: I also didn't take well the "do you know you can use shift enter ?". Jeez, I was using IRC years before that guy ever first installed messenger on his iphone.
PPS: now that I think about it I wonder what would happen if I replied "you know there's a built-in spelling and grammatical checker in your mail client?" because not only are their email lacking formatting (they write like they are texting) but they are full of grammatical and spelling mistakes that would get them to fail their primary school exams. And not taking the time to write correctly is clearly a lack of respect and lazyness, right?
Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)
#340Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree, because putting the whole request in at the outset puts the responsibility on me, even if I'm not available. Consider the following exchange: Co-worker: Hi, AA. Me: Hello. Co-worker: I need some help, are you available? Co-worker: Well, I'm actually past my shift, and you probably saw me available because I was reading an email. Can I hit you up in the morning? Coworker: Sure. ---VS----- Co-worker: Hi, AA…
There's a happy medium, where you can give some indication about the nature of the request while recognizing that the person may not be available to tackle it right away: Co-worker: Hi, AA. We have a client with a problem, and I could use your help to do X, Y, and Z. Are you available? If you don't reply after a few minutes, it's clear that you're not available and they can seek help elsewhere with an on-the-clock or…
If it’s an emergency, page the oncall. If you are the oncall, page anyone you need, and then Slack/Zoom become realtime (at least for them).