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Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

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Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#301

Post by GekkePrutser »

iujjkfjdkkdkf wrote: post #136
GekkePrutser wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah one thing that annoys me even more is "cold-calling".. E.g. ringing me on teams without asking if I'm there first. One of the good things about remote working is that I can finally concentrate on stuff without constant interruptions.

Haha I can understand why that bothers you of course, but I find it amusing that I feel exactly the opposite way. I would usually much prefer that someone try phoning me or (of initiating a call on slack or zoom) that go through the "hi, time to chat? When is good, etc?" Slack has icons to indicate availability, if mine is green, I really wish people would just call.

Yeah good point... It depends on the role too, I think..

I tend to do in-depth technical work and as such I need to concentrate often. Basically this thing: https://imgur.com/xvNRKIT

I can imagine that if you're in a more collaborative role, this can be completely different.

And yes I hate it more when I'm on Busy. In our company the status seems to matter none at all.. Even when I'm on Do Not Disturb (one grade more than Busy) people tend to keep pinging when I don't answer.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#302

Post by neilv »

I know someone who not only does this, but, even when I respond instantly, they often take minutes to respond.

The process can take minutes of standing-by, which is a hard interruption to whatever I was doing, before getting info that could've been in the first message.

Thus far, it's never seemed the right time to say something or paste nohello.net URL. :)

We used to have a related problem on technical IRC channels, and sometimes the channel title would include a message to newbies, like "don't ask whether you can ask a question; just ask the question".

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#303

Post by jawns »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #226
kempbellt wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common theme in my workplace. Especially with everyone working remote and odd hours these days. We use both email and Slack, but most conversations tend to be asynchronous regardless and I frequently wonder why we even have an instant messenger. That said, I find that even if a message is asynchronous, it is much easier to track conversation flow via slack than email. Reply chains and indentations get messy…

I disagree, because putting the whole request in at the outset puts the responsibility on me, even if I'm not available. Consider the following exchange: Co-worker: Hi, AA. Me: Hello. Co-worker: I need some help, are you available? Co-worker: Well, I'm actually past my shift, and you probably saw me available because I was reading an email. Can I hit you up in the morning? Coworker: Sure. ---VS----- Co-worker: Hi, AA…

There's a happy medium, where you can give some indication about the nature of the request while recognizing that the person may not be available to tackle it right away:

Co-worker: Hi, AA. We have a client with a problem, and I could use your help to do X, Y, and Z. Are you available?

If you don't reply after a few minutes, it's clear that you're not available and they can seek help elsewhere with an on-the-clock or on-call resource.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#304

Post by juancn »

Crap, I'm not the only one. A "Hi" conveys no actionable information. It's impossible to triage.

It's disrespectful of people's time, even though the sender thinks it's being polite.

The further I get in my career, the busier I get, and the more painful this becomes. Relentless prioritization is the only way to get the right shit done.

I need to choose and pick where my attention goes to, so please, just ask!

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#305

Post by juancn »

nullc wrote: post #169

I don't think this advice is useful because a lot of the time the reason people are doing this is the reason people don't like it. When someone states their request outright the recipient may be "conditionally there" based on the content of the request: They'll reply if they find the question interesting/relevant and worth interrupting what they're doing and put it off otherwise. The asker, however, would prefer thei…

I tend to ignore messages that convey no useful information. I also push back and ask them to please do not just say hello, I'm busy, I cannot triage if don't tell me what you mean.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#306

Post by tracerbulletx »

antisthenes wrote: post #288
jt2190 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re describing a behavior that is highly frowned upon in the Israeli Defense Force, here described to Joel Spolsky by Tamir Nitzan: > As for the expressions (pronounced “rosh katan” – little head, vs. “rosh gadol” – big head). This expression comes from the IDF, and as most military language, doesn’t quite translate into normal language. A “rosh katan” (literally “little head”, and I actually think it is the origi…

Keep in mind that variant 2 takes an exorbitant amount of effort compared to variant 1. If you're multitasking and have other responsibilities, it's not always prudent to give every task such detailed attention, especially if it requires you to context switch. It may work in the army, where you don't really have much creative/deep work going on, but I've seen those expectations fail in the workplace.

You can generalize this pretty easily by understanding what is important and what isn't. It doesn't matter how creative or deep you think your regular work is. If it is very important that this person gets to the meeting and you have been tasked with making that happen, then you should be behaving like in the second example regardless. If it's important they be there and you have other work with higher priority and you think you can't do both, then you should immediately communicate that and have the responsibility of getting through to the other person reassigned. If it's not important this person come, then everyone should be fine with a message and if they make it they make it but everyone should know that upfront.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#307

Post by qw »

rafael09ed wrote: post #171
kempbellt wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slack sets you to "Away/Offline" after 10 minutes of inactivity by default, and by "relatively quickly" I mean, within an hour or two. If you can't close Slack or update your status to let people know you are unavailable for long periods of time, what is the point of being on Slack? Or a team for that matter? Barring an emergency, I'm not going to call someone directly because they're too busy working to (team)work.…

> Barring an emergency, I'm not going to call someone directly because they're too busy working to (team)work. I think that's the point. Very rarely do you need someone to respond immediately.

I agree.

I have mail notifications available, but nobody is expecting me to actually answer a mail the same minute it is sent. If I am working on something, I will wait until I have time for it.

Why should Slack be different? It's just another asynchronous communication tool. The conversations have the possibility to be synchronous, but that is up to the users's involved.

As others have pointed out, I reserve the right to be decide how I spend my time. A team player should not expect to be able to decide how my time is spent.

If I am busy and someone just sends a "Hi" message without any context, i will ignore it until I have finished my task unless I have a reason to suspect that it is urgent.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#308

Post by sfgweilr4f »

Context does matter here. A catch-all "rule" doesn't make sense.

In some channels I just type my update. Those channels don't have Hello or similar. We usually never actually leave them. We're always on. Even if we go offline we're deemed "will connect later". The message will get to wherever eventually. Especially PMs to a particular person.

In other channels, especially those Question/Answer channels... often the Hello is to see if anyone is around. If no one is around and the question is time sensitive, why bother asking it?

Other channels work across time. Ask your question now and a person may later answer. Even later still you will get the answer. No one is offended by delays. Its expected.

In still other channels, a "hello" is mandatory. Who are you? Why are you here? Did you just barge in and start asking questions or join the chat? Introduce yourself.

Different context. Different rules. Synchronous vs Asynchronous. Different expectations.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#309

Post by [deleted] »

dorkwood wrote: post #158
jasode wrote: post #33

>People who do this are generally trying to be polite by not jumping right into the request, like one would in person or on the phone - and that's great! Different people have different reasons but I notice that many people that do a naked "hi" / "hey" are trying to see if the receiver is present for an immediate reply. In other words, the sender deliberately wants a synchronous instead of asynchronous convo. They do…

> They don't want to type out a bunch of words for a question if the reply isn't going to happen for a few hours. I'm trying really hard to understand this mindset. What sort of question either needs to be answered immediately or not at all?

[deleted]

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#310

Post by djur »

Arainach wrote: post #283
lisper wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is another consideration: composing an inquiry designed for asynchronous comms requires a lot more effort than synchronous. If I know the exchange is going to be synchronous I can be a lot more sloppy in my formulation because I know I'll be there to clarify ambiguities, provide missing info, etc. in real time. If it's going to be asynchronous I have to put a lot more effort into making sure that the inquiry is…

This is disrespectful of the time of the person you're talking to. Taking the time to write a good question is important. This is true in synchronous and asynchronous conversation. A class of problem as big as the "No Hello" problem is asking questions that are way too specific, like "How do I get a list of which windows are on which desktops" when the actual question is "How should I move a window to another desktop…

I would not say that most questions I answer at work are "favors". Answering questions is one of my job duties.
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