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Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

nohello.net

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Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#271

Post by ridaj »

oauea wrote: post #240
ridaj wrote: post #204

These kinds of things are personal preference. Top reasons I do want people to say hello to me first over IM: * Other people looking at my screen. Common when working out designs, in person or remote * I'm presenting my screen publicly and might have forgotten to turn off notifications * I might be busy and want you to email me instead so that I'll get to your request on my own time * I don't want you to think that I…

Right, so you want other people to work around your forgetfulness? Your private messages are intended to be private. If you're knowingly displaying them during a presentation, that is very rude of you.

?? I didn't say I would knowingly display them, that would be rude. I'm saying it can happen, for example when someone is passing by and you're showing something to them on your screen, or yes if one is forgetful about notifications during a presentation, but everyone is forgetful at some point...

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#272

Post by [deleted] »

ballenf wrote: post #91
GordonS wrote: post #27

Gods, but this drives me absolutely nuts at work. Like OK, what?! It tells me nothing about the urgency of the matter, let alone what it relates to. So I can put it to the side and keep working - but it's going to be nagging at me "hmm, what if it's about x?". So now I've got to break focus and waste time just to find out how important it is, and what it even relates to. I much prefer "Hi, I have a question regarding…

Seems like a great use case for a slack bot. Monitor for naked hellos and show a link to this page. That way it’s not personal.

[deleted]

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#273

Post by vultour »

codeulike wrote: post #85

I dont agree with this. Its good to be polite. Also if you throw your question into the chat without first verifying that they are seeing it and responding then you can end up asking the question, then they dont see it, then it hangs around for ages, then they see it hours later when it might not be relevant anymore and it causes confusion. Saying hello is fine, and polite, our social instincts are pretty good genera…

You really need to stop doing this, it’s only making people hate you.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#274

Post by anaerobicover »

lisper wrote: post #232
jasode wrote: post #33

>People who do this are generally trying to be polite by not jumping right into the request, like one would in person or on the phone - and that's great! Different people have different reasons but I notice that many people that do a naked "hi" / "hey" are trying to see if the receiver is present for an immediate reply. In other words, the sender deliberately wants a synchronous instead of asynchronous convo. They do…

It's not just a question of personal preference. I often find myself in situations where I can solve a problem in <1 min if I can ask someone a question. I also know I can solve it without their help, but it will take me many tens of minutes (as I reverse-engineer their code or something like that). In a situation like that it makes sense for me to inquire if they can answer my question now, but an asynchronous inqui…

Surely you can ask the question, continue working, and then if the question becomes moot come back and either delete the original or leave a new message that says "never mind, found it!".

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#275

Post by tene »

codeulike wrote: post #85

I dont agree with this. Its good to be polite. Also if you throw your question into the chat without first verifying that they are seeing it and responding then you can end up asking the question, then they dont see it, then it hangs around for ages, then they see it hours later when it might not be relevant anymore and it causes confusion. Saying hello is fine, and polite, our social instincts are pretty good genera…

If you believe the comments of people advocating nohello are about "lost productivity", I recommend you try re-reading this comment thread with a bit more empathy, looking for the emotions behind the comments.

You mention our social instincts. For a lot of people, nohello is exactly what our social instincts are pushing for. For us, a bare "hello" without any context or information is uncomfortable, and feels rather rude.

A big part of politeness, courtesy, and etiquette is helping people feel comfortable, meeting them where they are.

For me personally, and I think a lot of others who agree with nohello, a bare "Hello" with no content or context gives me nothing to work with, nothing to say, nothing to grab on to to understand what kind of conversation I'm having. You mention a "feeling of connection" while waiting for someone to type the rest of their question, but to me it only feels like disrespect.

When people talk about things you summarize as "lost productivity", it's not about a desire to advocate the interests of the company, but instead it's expressing that for people like us, these kinds of content-free social rituals feel disruptive to the flow of work, and that these disruptions feel irritating, uncomfortable, and disrespectful. It feels like a violation of our culture's etiquette.

Feel free to say hello, include as many social pleasantries as you like in your messages, but please also include at least some meaningful content about your goals or intentions.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#276

Post by vmception »

nullc wrote: post #169

I don't think this advice is useful because a lot of the time the reason people are doing this is the reason people don't like it. When someone states their request outright the recipient may be "conditionally there" based on the content of the request: They'll reply if they find the question interesting/relevant and worth interrupting what they're doing and put it off otherwise. The asker, however, would prefer thei…

social pressure lol

I’ll write back I’m busy or that I’m not going to do that

and accept the consequences

more people should accept the consequences

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#277

Post by lisper »

Arainach wrote: post #269
lisper wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with your "great" formulation is that my interlocutor does know, and I know she knows (because she wrote the code). What I don't know is whether she is in a position to give me an answer right now , which is what I need for it to do me any good. So I usually open with "Ping..." which everyone I deal with knows means, "Are you in the mood to be bothered with a quick question that needs an immediate answer?…

Then just say "never mind, figured it out" when it's no longer relevant.

There is another consideration: composing an inquiry designed for asynchronous comms requires a lot more effort than synchronous. If I know the exchange is going to be synchronous I can be a lot more sloppy in my formulation because I know I'll be there to clarify ambiguities, provide missing info, etc. in real time. If it's going to be asynchronous I have to put a lot more effort into making sure that the inquiry is self-contained, unambiguous, etc.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#279

Post by lisper »

anaerobicover wrote: post #274
lisper wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just a question of personal preference. I often find myself in situations where I can solve a problem in <1 min if I can ask someone a question. I also know I can solve it without their help, but it will take me many tens of minutes (as I reverse-engineer their code or something like that). In a situation like that it makes sense for me to inquire if they can answer my question now, but an asynchronous inqui…

Surely you can ask the question, continue working, and then if the question becomes moot come back and either delete the original or leave a new message that says "never mind, found it!".

Yes, of course I can, but that's not a perfect solution. Suppose it turns out that I was mistaken in my belief that the person I'm asking knows the answer off the top of their head. They see my chat which by now is (say) an hour old and start to work on finding an answer because they think it's important. Half an hour later they've figured it out, come back to answer, and see that my original inquiry has been deleted. At best they would be puzzled, at worst annoyed that I've wasted their time.

Human communications are laden with subtleties. Synchronous comms are fundamentally different from async, and it's important to know which one you're actually engaged in so you can adjust your behavior appropriately.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#280

Post by ogre_codes »

happyopossum wrote: post #140
kempbellt wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common theme in my workplace. Especially with everyone working remote and odd hours these days. We use both email and Slack, but most conversations tend to be asynchronous regardless and I frequently wonder why we even have an instant messenger. That said, I find that even if a message is asynchronous, it is much easier to track conversation flow via slack than email. Reply chains and indentations get messy…

> I would appreciate a more standardized practice around, "If Slack says you are available, we can expect you to respond relatively quickly" than seeing a green dot and not hearing back for hours or a day. No. Slack does not know if I’m at my desk, busy, or even taking a protected me-time lunch break. And no, you cannot expect me to manually update my status in Slack, Teams, Zoom, and every other communication tool I…

Indeed, most people understand that Slack is not guaranteed timely delivery and knows that unless you get a reply the message may not have been received. Usually we just tap the thumb emoji to acknowledge we read and understood the request.
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