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Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

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Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common theme in my workplace. Especially with everyone working remote and odd hours these days. We use both email and Slack, but most conversations tend to be asynchronous regardless and I frequently wonder why we even have an instant messenger. That said, I find that even if a message is asynchronous, it is much easier to track conversation flow via slack than email. Reply chains and indentations get messy…

I disagree, because putting the whole request in at the outset puts the responsibility on me, even if I'm not available. Consider the following exchange: Co-worker: Hi, AA. Me: Hello. Co-worker: I need some help, are you available? Co-worker: Well, I'm actually past my shift, and you probably saw me available because I was reading an email. Can I hit you up in the morning? Coworker: Sure. ---VS----- Co-worker: Hi, AA…

You’re describing a behavior that is highly frowned upon in the Israeli Defense Force, here described to Joel Spolsky by Tamir Nitzan:

> As for the expressions (pronounced “rosh katan” – little head, vs. “rosh gadol” – big head). This expression comes from the IDF, and as most military language, doesn’t quite translate into normal language. A “rosh katan” (literally “little head”, and I actually think it is the original expression which derived most likely from “pinhead”, the contrast later came in as a complement) is someone that does exactly what he’s told.

>[An] example: you tell a soldier to “go notify so-and-so that we will be ready for inspection at 1600”. By 1700 you’re curious, so you ask him “did you notify?”. [A “rosh katan’s”] answer might be “well I called his office and left a message”. A “rosh gadol” would likely say: “I called his office but got his voice mail, so I left a message. I called back an hour later but still got voice mail, so I called his cell phone and left a message there too. I tried him again an hour after that and he assured me he will be here by 1600. I called him again 20 minutes ago and he said he was on his way but stuck in traffic” (a real “rosh gadol” would have notified his C.O. of all this without being asked of course).

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/12/06/news-45/

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are good reasons for phoning, yes, but even then you'd be better if you're stuck in text to start off with as much urgent information as possible. "Hi Bob, the wobbulator sprocket is on fire and I need to you defusticate the gonksnaffler immediately."

Unless the matter has an ephemerality requirement, in which case I message seeking immediate availability and then transition to a phone call. A signal call if the matter needs to be both ephemeral and confidential. Insisting on asynchronous communication for All The Things™ concerns me in that it shows that a person isn't adaptable to varying criticalities and sensitivities. The same goes for insisting on synchronou…

Even in that case, "Are you around for a call?" gets the point across far better than "Hey, are you there?"

Most people don't need to deal with ephemeral requirements. I've been in software for over a decade at a variety of businesses, and without fail the only times someone's been worried about talking over discoverable mediums they've been considering something that's anticompetitive or potentially illegal. The vast majority of people I've interacted with don't do things like that, and the few I do I don't want to work with.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#263
I’m annoyed by this but for direct messages at least it’s easily solved by simply not replying. If there’s no question or indication of criticality in a professional setting, that means it can wait. If they really need your help, they’ll send a second message. This also avoids the infuriating situation where a reply to “hey” is then replied to with something like “nvm fixed it”.

I apply the golden rule: while doing this I also don’t expect immediate responses from other people to my questions. If it’s critical, I will call them.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#264
I don't like people saying just hello and expecting me to answer before they get to the point. If I see the message and immediately respond hello back then I have to sit and wait and watch the 'person is writing' indication until I get the the real reason they contact me. This time is just active waiting and can't be used for anything. In the situation where I see the hello at some later time and reply back the other person might not even be there. Should I actively wait or start something else and keep an eye on the chat, prepared to be interrupted? A lose-lose situation for me..

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#265
post #6

How about people choose for themselves? Feels that one person's annoyance is another's wish. I don't see why someone's invented manifesto should be used as a guide for everyone.

Because the thread is an echo chamber of irritable pricks whose time and focus is valuable.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#267
post #33

>People who do this are generally trying to be polite by not jumping right into the request, like one would in person or on the phone - and that's great! Different people have different reasons but I notice that many people that do a naked "hi" / "hey" are trying to see if the receiver is present for an immediate reply. In other words, the sender deliberately wants a synchronous instead of asynchronous convo. They do…

There are plenty of times when a synchronous or time sensitive communication is needed and in those cases a proper first message in slack is something like "production is down" or "we have a customer call in an hour and I need an update on issue X" as those types of messages communicate clearly that I need to drop (or wrap up) what I'm doing an attend to your needs.

If you say "hello" instead you are immediately telling me that your issue isn't an emergency, but that you want me to treat it like one. I just ignore these and if the person goes on to ask their question I'll deal with it when I have time.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common theme in my workplace. Especially with everyone working remote and odd hours these days. We use both email and Slack, but most conversations tend to be asynchronous regardless and I frequently wonder why we even have an instant messenger. That said, I find that even if a message is asynchronous, it is much easier to track conversation flow via slack than email. Reply chains and indentations get messy…

I disagree, because putting the whole request in at the outset puts the responsibility on me, even if I'm not available. Consider the following exchange: Co-worker: Hi, AA. Me: Hello. Co-worker: I need some help, are you available? Co-worker: Well, I'm actually past my shift, and you probably saw me available because I was reading an email. Can I hit you up in the morning? Coworker: Sure. ---VS----- Co-worker: Hi, AA…

I'm not sure I buy that example; if it's a time-sensitive issue, Co-worker can't just fire something off into the ether, receive no ACK, and then wash their hands of it. That's a deeply broken process.

If they don't hear back from you in scenario 2, they should find someone else. If they absolutely need you then there should be some way they can escalate to a higher-priority channel (phone probably). (And I certainly hope you have an "on-call" status of some kind.)

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#269
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then include that in your initial message. Awful: "Hey" Bad: "Hey, are you around?" Tolerable: "I have a question about foo" Good: "How does foo audit log requests?" Great: "How does foo audit log requests? If you don't know offhand, no problem - I'll keep looking at baz"

The problem with your "great" formulation is that my interlocutor does know, and I know she knows (because she wrote the code). What I don't know is whether she is in a position to give me an answer right now , which is what I need for it to do me any good. So I usually open with "Ping..." which everyone I deal with knows means, "Are you in the mood to be bothered with a quick question that needs an immediate answer?…

Then just say "never mind, figured it out" when it's no longer relevant.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Online status does not mean I am available, the online status tells my team that I am indeed, in my work day and they can message me and get a response when I'm actually available. Clocking in physically at your job tells your employer you're working, but it doesn't mean you're available immediately for their attention.

Yes text chat tools have too little engagement. I worked on a startup called Sococo (still exists; pivoted to be a WebRTC clone) that used a map. You could see each little bobblehead on the map, either in their office, in a conference room, in a break room, with our without their headset on. You clicked your guy into the room to conference with people in that room. If you didn't want to be bothered, you put your bobb…

i am confused. the explainer video looks like what you describe, how has sococo changed?
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