Please don't say just hello in chat (2013) • Hacker News Board

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#201

Post by dkarl » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

This is an annoying way to ask a question, but it makes sense for answering one. ("Hey dkarl, can you reach out to so-and-so; he needs some help with the plagtron events tables.") If you're there right now, we can chat for a few seconds so I can clarify your question and give you exactly the information you need. If you're not there, I'm going to spend twenty minutes writing something comprehensive, especially if we're in different time zones and your day tomorrow will start six hours before mine.

Sometimes it's good to default to a comprehensive write-up if it will be useful for a long time to multiple people, but it can be a bit wasteful if you write up a thorough description of a relational schema and it turns out they just wanted to know why there was a particular index on a particular table.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#202

Post by leetcrew » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 5:46 PM UTC

kempbellt wrote: post #192

joshmanders wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you can't play nicely on a team then maybe a different job is for you? This is a bullshit copout. It's a cultural issue if people cannot be respectful of their co-workers time. It is very common that if something is important to use important modes of communication such as phone calls. My team for example is very asynchronous because that is our culture. Our team is located all over the country and some people i…

No, the bullshit copout is showing that you are available when you are not, to give the illusion that you are working I have nothing but respect for my coworkers personal time. I couldn't care less, personally, if you need to take hours, days, weeks, or even months off of work for whatever reason. Do what you need to do. However, if you are on Slack and suggesting to people you are available when you are not, that is…

> No, the bullshit copout is showing that you are available when you are not, to give the illusion that you are working me working != available to immediately respond to your question. I'm not going to drop all the context for a bug I'm close to fixing to reply to a slack message. if I've been working on a bug for hours and I'm nowhere near a solution, I might switch gears and help you with your issue. I can't know at the beginning of investigating a bug which state I'm going to be in when you ask your question.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#203

Post by denimnerd42 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 5:46 PM UTC

dasil003 wrote: post #179

_underfl0w_ wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please name at least one that would warrant a "naked greeting" like that though? "Production issue" comes to mind, but that would just as likely warrant a quick summary of the situation, since waiting for a response to "hi" wastes even more time.

Your boss has 10 reports and he needs to talk to all of them within an hour to tell some bad news face to face before it’s announced impersonally via email. I probably would be slightly more verbose saying “hey, got a sec?” but honestly it’s a style question and if I’m on the receiving end it’s not going to bother me. I find much of the discourse around slack etiquette to be slightly self-absorbed. The fact is, thing…

Then they can call me.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#204

Post by ridaj » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 5:46 PM UTC

These kinds of things are personal preference. Top reasons I do want people to say hello to me first over IM:

* Other people looking at my screen. Common when working out designs, in person or remote

* I'm presenting my screen publicly and might have forgotten to turn off notifications

* I might be busy and want you to email me instead so that I'll get to your request on my own time

* I don't want you to think that I got your message if I haven't especially if it's set to be deleted on some timer

That said I recognize that some people who don't have these problems have a "nohello" preference. I generally advise people to make their preferences explicitly known without sounding like there's only "one true way" of doing business when it comes to communication modes (and to respect others' preferences).

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#205

Post by ealhad » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 5:47 PM UTC

Nice. Any plans to make translations? I think it could be useful to a lot of people.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#206

Post by cadence- » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 5:47 PM UTC

dakial1 wrote: post #183

jasode wrote: post #33

>People who do this are generally trying to be polite by not jumping right into the request, like one would in person or on the phone - and that's great! Different people have different reasons but I notice that many people that do a naked "hi" / "hey" are trying to see if the receiver is present for an immediate reply. In other words, the sender deliberately wants a synchronous instead of asynchronous convo. They do…

I do that. And my main reason is not to have a synched conversation, but first to see it the recipient is responsive before I ask the question, usually, a tough question that the recipient might want to dodge or procrastinate. So if I ask everything at the same time, he might never answer, dodge it and say "sorry I didn't see your message". Basically, I use hello as a trap.

This kind of behavior is usually a result of some other, more fundamental problem within your team. You would probably benefit from some kind of team building activity that would repair trust among your team members. Using hello as a trap will only make things worse over time and people will dislike working with you.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#207

Post by oauea » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #33

>People who do this are generally trying to be polite by not jumping right into the request, like one would in person or on the phone - and that's great! Different people have different reasons but I notice that many people that do a naked "hi" / "hey" are trying to see if the receiver is present for an immediate reply. In other words, the sender deliberately wants a synchronous instead of asynchronous convo. They do…

The trick is to not respond until they say what they want. If they later complain, say you didn't have time for a friendly conversation.

Alternatively, if you're not busy, respond but steer the conversation to topics like the weather.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#208

Post by globular-toast » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 5:49 PM UTC

The rule normally stated on IRC is "don't ask to ask". You'll find that in IRC channel topics everywhere (although I have noticed many geeks going soft and trying to be more "approachable" these days).

People asking to ask really pisses geeks off (me included). This was one of the first things that made me realise that I'm very similar to a very small number of other fellow geeks, and very different from most people. Most people think they're being polite by asking to ask. We think they're being rude by wasting our time on such pointless pleasantries.

I like that this page uses The Office for its examples. I don't think it will do any good, though. People either get why you don't ask to ask, or they don't. And some people don't value their time (let alone your time) as highly as you value yours.

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#209

Post by airstrike » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 5:49 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #33

>People who do this are generally trying to be polite by not jumping right into the request, like one would in person or on the phone - and that's great! Different people have different reasons but I notice that many people that do a naked "hi" / "hey" are trying to see if the receiver is present for an immediate reply. In other words, the sender deliberately wants a synchronous instead of asynchronous convo. They do…

The solution is: "Hi jasode, do you have a few minutes to talk about X. I'm available after 2pm. Please let me know what time works for you. Thanks"

Re: Please don't say just hello in chat (2013)

#210

Post by oauea » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 5:49 PM UTC

eganist wrote: post #131

signal11 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For immediate replies I’d usually use “you there?” or “free for a quick chat?”. The naked greeting is just begging to get ignored.

The linked page advocates against these on the same premise, which is my primary challenge with it. It ignores urgency.

If it's urgent then you should probably take a few seconds to explain why.