Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#451

Post by rgblambda » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:37 PM UTC

jjgreen wrote: post #439

multjoy wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sinn Fein had literal terrorists as members and were proscribed by government. This is the exact opposite of what has been seen in relation to the deplatforming on social media sites.

Sinn Fein were never proscribed, they were the political wing of the Provisional IRA (which very-much was proscribed), but were never illegal themselves. This makes sense for both sides, to keep lines of communication open.

Gerry Adams claimed he was first arrested for selling the party newspaper. There was a strange, not illegal but harassed anyway, sort of relationship between Sinn Fein and the authorities.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#452

Post by angry_octet » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:37 PM UTC

dpwm wrote: post #412

simonh wrote: post #368

For any non-Brits, the SWP is the main left of Labour party in Britain. As a student in the 80s I remember them as an earnest, way too serious bunch of ideological zombies ranting into microphones at the Student's Union about the latest crimes against humanity perpetrated by 'Thatcher'. They're the kind of people that come up to you in the street with leaflets about some atrocity in Africa and shout "Would you murder…

My first encounter with the SWP was at a stall outside a university building. They didn't seem shouty, but I remember asking questions and getting vague, half-thought-out answers. Then about ten years later, I met a couple who were ex SWP but switched to labour once Corbyn became leader. I was reminded slightly of that stall by Corbyn's speeches. It's worth noting that the harder left Communist Party of Great Britain…

The sudden increase in Labour membership and Corbyn coming to power suddenly makes more sense.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#453

Post by ganafagol » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:38 PM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #390

kypro wrote: post #287

How is this not foreign political interference? The UK media has been preaching to us about dangers of Russian election interference for years at this point, but simultaneously they seem completely unconcerned that a handful of wealthy Americans how the power to censor popular media outlets, entire political movements and political activists at a whim. The SWP is massive. I don't know for sure, but I suspect they had…

Ha ha. Time to regurgitate all the “private suppression of information isn’t censorship”, “facebook is a private company free of kicking anyone out of their platform”, “facebook shouldn’t be compelled to carry speech it dislikes”, etc.

And that's why it was wrong to kick off Trump, just as it's now wrong to kick off the SWP.

A slippery slope was started and now the genie is out of the bottle and can't be contained anymore.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#454

Post by antihero » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:40 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #368

For any non-Brits, the SWP is the main left of Labour party in Britain. As a student in the 80s I remember them as an earnest, way too serious bunch of ideological zombies ranting into microphones at the Student's Union about the latest crimes against humanity perpetrated by 'Thatcher'. They're the kind of people that come up to you in the street with leaflets about some atrocity in Africa and shout "Would you murder…

They're pretty much loathed in the left.

They're more like PETA than antifa, they cover up internal sexual assaults, have a bunch of cranks, and other groups have to put up with and try to prevent their continuous entryism, hijacking protests and other actions to self-promote.

Lots of cranks (though probably less so than CPGB-ML who are full on tankies), and a giant pain in the backside.

Nevertheless, whilst I chuckle at this, it is a dangerous thing and yet another reason Facebook should not be trusted as any sort of impartial platform and probably dismantled.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#455

Post by pessimizer » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:40 PM UTC

kmlx wrote: post #358

fergie wrote: post #333

Theres a lot of talk of cancel culture these days, but the UK has a long an shameful history of shutting down the hard left. You can argue about whether or not you agree with people like Arthur Scargill, Gerry Adams, Tommy Sheridan, George Galloway or Jeremy Corbyn, but what cant be disputed is that they represent the interests of a large proportion of the electorate, yet they have been treated atrociously by the med…

> of a large proportion of the electorate when is a portion of the electorate “large”? in 2010 the SWP got an amazing 0.04% i don’t think they even participated in the last ones.

So you're going to simply ignore the list of the names in the part of the comment you're referring to?

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#456

Post by helsinkiandrew » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:41 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #368

For any non-Brits, the SWP is the main left of Labour party in Britain. As a student in the 80s I remember them as an earnest, way too serious bunch of ideological zombies ranting into microphones at the Student's Union about the latest crimes against humanity perpetrated by 'Thatcher'. They're the kind of people that come up to you in the street with leaflets about some atrocity in Africa and shout "Would you murder…

The main FB page is now back but they claim other local pages are not: https://swp.org.uk/1049-2/

I'm not sure how they SWP got banned - I guess some pro palestinian posts may have strayed into the antisemitic territory?

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#457

Post by antihero » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:43 PM UTC

Veen wrote: post #399

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are over-stating the significance of the SWP. Maybe what you say is true of the 80s, but it isn't today. They are not the main party to the left of Labour, the greens are. The greens have 50,000 members and received 850,000 votes in the 2019 election, the SWP has a few thousand members and does not even field candidates. In my experience they have little influence on the Labour grassroots. The SWP's standing amon…

Given your username, I'm curious. Are there many left anarchist activists in the UK at the moment? I had some tenuous contact with the ACF in the late-90s, but it doesn't seem a very active or impactful part of the political landscape.

There used to be a decent amount of book shops and punk gigs. There's IWW and Solidarity Federation, not sure how active. There's also a bunch of Marxist and other varios left-wing philosophically based groups.

There used to be a great group called Space Hijackers who bought an APC and drove it through the G20 but that was 11 years ago, they were kinda Situationist.

There was UK Uncut. I think a lot of groups end up just being overwhelmed with the amount of awful shit the Tories do and how apathetic/ignorant our population is.

London Renters Union is a new and amazing left-wing group, not necessarily anarchist, but not ML or Trot either.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#458

Post by konjin » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

angry_octet wrote: post #452

dpwm wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first encounter with the SWP was at a stall outside a university building. They didn't seem shouty, but I remember asking questions and getting vague, half-thought-out answers. Then about ten years later, I met a couple who were ex SWP but switched to labour once Corbyn became leader. I was reminded slightly of that stall by Corbyn's speeches. It's worth noting that the harder left Communist Party of Great Britain…

The sudden increase in Labour membership and Corbyn coming to power suddenly makes more sense.

You could just look at policy support.

People like far left policies far more than anyone would expect.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#459

Post by icebraining » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

washadjeffmad wrote: post #442

ianai wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it’s the smallish act that reveals FBs true pro-far right bias.

FB skews conservative in content because that's who uses and invests in it, not who staffs it (primarily coastal, urban elites). There have been numerous stories about FB employees lifting their noses at the platform's contents and users only to be reminded by Zuck that those are their users, and they serve them no matter who they are.

The Facebook PAC also funds politicians like Andy Biggs, Michael Burgess, Mike Kelly, Tom Emmer and many others, so it's not just about the user base.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#460

Post by brigandish » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

danielheath wrote: post #253

tqi wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People dont want distributed moderation, they just want the other side to be moderated.

Moderation isn't censorship. I might entertain an emotional desire for the other side to be censored sometimes. But a good moderator? I want them for me and mine. I care about 'my side' making strong, principled arguments with actionable policy outcomes, and not advancing weaker ones.

> Moderation isn't censorship.

It it if it only applies to one side and in a form that the other side approves of, and that was the point of the example you replied to. If it was your example, "I want them for me and mine" then there wouldn't be a problem (or this problem, there'll always be problems).