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Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

swp.org.uk

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Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#411

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

Veen wrote: post #399
Emma_Goldman wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are over-stating the significance of the SWP. Maybe what you say is true of the 80s, but it isn't today. They are not the main party to the left of Labour, the greens are. The greens have 50,000 members and received 850,000 votes in the 2019 election, the SWP has a few thousand members and does not even field candidates. In my experience they have little influence on the Labour grassroots. The SWP's standing amon…

Given your username, I'm curious. Are there many left anarchist activists in the UK at the moment? I had some tenuous contact with the ACF in the late-90s, but it doesn't seem a very active or impactful part of the political landscape.

Many? No.

There was a very concerted and covert anti-left push during the 80s and 90s. Anti-establishment groups of all kinds - anti-nuclear protesters, greens, animal rights activists, and official far left groups like the SWP - were infiltrated by undercover police and sometimes subverted.

It's an ongoing scandal, although it's been lost in the noise from other events over the last year or two. Undercover police with fake identities had relationships with activists and sometimes fathered children with them.

In some cases they worked internationally and were responsible for criminal acts (i.e. terrorism) which discredited the organisations and movements they infiltrated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_undercover_policing_relatio...

It's hard not to suspect the apologies are disingenuous. The plan was to subvert, marginalise, and discredit left wing views, and to destroy left wing organisations of all kinds.

And it seems to have been very successful.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#412

Post by dpwm »

simonh wrote: post #368

For any non-Brits, the SWP is the main left of Labour party in Britain. As a student in the 80s I remember them as an earnest, way too serious bunch of ideological zombies ranting into microphones at the Student's Union about the latest crimes against humanity perpetrated by 'Thatcher'. They're the kind of people that come up to you in the street with leaflets about some atrocity in Africa and shout "Would you murder…

My first encounter with the SWP was at a stall outside a university building. They didn't seem shouty, but I remember asking questions and getting vague, half-thought-out answers. Then about ten years later, I met a couple who were ex SWP but switched to labour once Corbyn became leader. I was reminded slightly of that stall by Corbyn's speeches.

It's worth noting that the harder left Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist-Leninist) can only really talk of imperialism, bourgeois democracy, the labour aristocracy and overproduction — at least in relation to the UK.

No serious leftist group in the UK is even hoping for the conditions in which a revolution might be possible, because in those conditions they believe that the counterrevolutionaries would be the darlings of the UK media, would have near full police backing, and would likely target leftists as an enemy to deal with.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#413

Post by nimchimpsky »

friedman23 wrote: post #309
kypro wrote: post #287

How is this not foreign political interference? The UK media has been preaching to us about dangers of Russian election interference for years at this point, but simultaneously they seem completely unconcerned that a handful of wealthy Americans how the power to censor popular media outlets, entire political movements and political activists at a whim. The SWP is massive. I don't know for sure, but I suspect they had…

wait, we don't like corporate censorship now?

Would have been better making that point if it was actually a response to someone.

Maybe you could enlighten us on where you stand on corporate censorship ?

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#414

Post by Emma_Goldman »

Veen wrote: post #399
Emma_Goldman wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are over-stating the significance of the SWP. Maybe what you say is true of the 80s, but it isn't today. They are not the main party to the left of Labour, the greens are. The greens have 50,000 members and received 850,000 votes in the 2019 election, the SWP has a few thousand members and does not even field candidates. In my experience they have little influence on the Labour grassroots. The SWP's standing amon…

Given your username, I'm curious. Are there many left anarchist activists in the UK at the moment? I had some tenuous contact with the ACF in the late-90s, but it doesn't seem a very active or impactful part of the political landscape.

They have their causes - Occupy, Rojeve, anti-fascism, mutual aid groups - but no serious political strategy or organisation. A lot of the student movement and extra-parliamentary left abandoned their traditional antipathy of Labour and came into the party after Corbyn's election.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#415

Post by simonh »

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #414
Veen wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given your username, I'm curious. Are there many left anarchist activists in the UK at the moment? I had some tenuous contact with the ACF in the late-90s, but it doesn't seem a very active or impactful part of the political landscape.

They have their causes - Occupy, Rojeve, anti-fascism, mutual aid groups - but no serious political strategy or organisation. A lot of the student movement and extra-parliamentary left abandoned their traditional antipathy of Labour and came into the party after Corbyn's election.

Any sign that the flow is reversing?

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#417

Post by coolestuk »

simonh wrote: post #368

For any non-Brits, the SWP is the main left of Labour party in Britain. As a student in the 80s I remember them as an earnest, way too serious bunch of ideological zombies ranting into microphones at the Student's Union about the latest crimes against humanity perpetrated by 'Thatcher'. They're the kind of people that come up to you in the street with leaflets about some atrocity in Africa and shout "Would you murder…

"in no way shape or form a terrorist or criminal organisation".

Says you.

The SWP are followers of Leon Trotsky. https://socialistworker.co.uk/event/view/10735

Trotsky literally wrote a book advocating terrorism, a rebuke to socialists who deplored terrorism.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1920/terrcomm/

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#419

Post by mjburgess »

coolestuk wrote: post #417
simonh wrote: post #368

For any non-Brits, the SWP is the main left of Labour party in Britain. As a student in the 80s I remember them as an earnest, way too serious bunch of ideological zombies ranting into microphones at the Student's Union about the latest crimes against humanity perpetrated by 'Thatcher'. They're the kind of people that come up to you in the street with leaflets about some atrocity in Africa and shout "Would you murder…

"in no way shape or form a terrorist or criminal organisation". Says you. The SWP are followers of Leon Trotsky. https://socialistworker.co.uk/event/view/10735 Trotsky literally wrote a book advocating terrorism, a rebuke to socialists who deplored terrorism. https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1920/terrcomm/

A "criminal or terrorist organisation" is one which commits crimes or acts of terror.

Your own reasoning, ie., guilt by ideological association, no doubt implicates everyone -- including you.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#420

Post by say_it_as_it_is »

The grassroots organizing against American government during and following The Great Depression would be flagged and banned from organizing on corporate social media. FDR worked on The New Deal as a response to revolutionary organizing. One man's terrorist was another's freedom fighter.

The problem that the world is now going to deal with is that lunatics stormed the U.S. Capitol on January 6th. There is a 20,000 page bill making its way through the political system right now that makes the Patriot Act seem like child's play. There is a lot to be concerned about right now.

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