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React created roadblocks in our enterprise app

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Re: React created roadblocks in our enterprise app

#231

Post by mmis1000 »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #18
ourcat wrote: post #4

AngularJS was indeed a bit of a pain when we switched to Angular 2+ and beyond, but it was so worth it. I chose it because of the skillset that our current (small) team has. There's no way our 'designer' (more an HTML/CSS guy) could have wrapped his head around JSX, the way it mixes scripts with layout markup. The way Angular separates concerns for us is great. And the components are extremely flexible and reactive a…

JSX always seemed like a red flag to me. It was redesigning something that already exists to make it so that it uses non native browser functionality? Also the portability looked like an issue from it. I don't understand the use case for it. Vue and apparently Angular use basic browser friendly components.

Full flexibility means full responsibility. If I write sh_t, it will be sh_t and no one can stop me.(well, you have the full power of a turning complete language). Unfortunately not every team can afford it without trashing their code base eventually. (And yea, I don't even have the confidence that I won't. And even I do, what about teammates?). I always thinks having too much flexibility here is sometimes cons instead of pros.

Re: React created roadblocks in our enterprise app

#232

Post by mrcartmenez »

The problem was not React it was .Net developers. Angular is worse in this regard because the .Net developers feel more confident and charge ahead writing terrible code that is only == to shite rather than === to good. Learn the fucking language first you ahhgsvsvsgsjdhwbdksbdvrievevdjajavsgwgdvshsvevejahahagagagagahgagagagagagagagjgjghgahhagagagahahhahaha

Re: React created roadblocks in our enterprise app

#233

Post by worik »

ficklepickle wrote: post #190
worik wrote: post #188

I have spent my morning pleasantly reading the comments here after reading the article. I am struck that a lot of us here start the comments with "I have been a React developer for [3, 4, 5] years" I think this illustrates the fundamental weakness in the approach of people in the Javascrpt Frameworks world. Billion dollar organisations build software that will cost tens of millions to develop want, or should want, mo…

You might assume that, but operating at the level of DOM manipulations is too low-level for a large application. They are huge productivity boosters. I agree that they are often used irresponsibly resulting in poor quality software. Poor software isn't limited to the browser, however. A lot of commercial software is garbage. Profit incentives seem to encourage software that is barely fit for purpose.

I the 1990s, when I started out as a working computer programmer it used to be said that 90% of software projects failed.

I have no idea what the figure is now, and now I have more experience, seen abject failure defined as tremendous success I would not be surprised if it si worse in fact and better in annual reports.

Re: React created roadblocks in our enterprise app

#234

Post by worik »

nawgz wrote: post #198
worik wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Five years is not long. "Facebook is powered by React. Large, complex, enterprise, and fully powered by the cutting edge of JS frameworks" A very bad example. Most software of significant cost and size is serving a industry, and not the industry itself. Facebook can break things. If your insurance company or bank break things... Get my point?

I’m sorry, but this comment is a total goalpost mover, and complete BS. The goalpost moving: the initial article is talking about porting a desktop client based program with a reasonable amount of views to the web. Now Facebook scale and quality UI isn’t good enough to demonstrate that React is a strong front end tool. I also don’t see how the UI is particularly likely to cause issues to an insurance or banking compa…

"the initial article is talking about porting a desktop client based program with a reasonable amount of views to the web. Now Facebook scale and quality UI isn’t good enough to demonstrate that React is a strong front end tool"

Not the whole truth. It was a big job. "Enterprise level" has no clearly defined meaning, but I assume millions of dollars. A large team of C# programmers doin the system.

So it is worth doing sustainably. There is no evidence that react, which judging from the "I have N years experience of React..." N Whichrelates to your rude and sweary comment about: "... is serving a industry, not the industry itself" it is not complexity but sustainability. Facebook is the software. Your bank is not its banking software. The bank needs to know that in a decade they will still be able to maintain the software. If they use React, or Angular or goodness knows what else the bountiful world of JS frameworks will throw up for us, they cannot guarantee that.

I can reasonably say that Facebook doesn’t show React scales for sustainability: It does not.

Re: React created roadblocks in our enterprise app

#235

Post by worik »

nawgz wrote: post #198
worik wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Five years is not long. "Facebook is powered by React. Large, complex, enterprise, and fully powered by the cutting edge of JS frameworks" A very bad example. Most software of significant cost and size is serving a industry, and not the industry itself. Facebook can break things. If your insurance company or bank break things... Get my point?

I’m sorry, but this comment is a total goalpost mover, and complete BS. The goalpost moving: the initial article is talking about porting a desktop client based program with a reasonable amount of views to the web. Now Facebook scale and quality UI isn’t good enough to demonstrate that React is a strong front end tool. I also don’t see how the UI is particularly likely to cause issues to an insurance or banking compa…

BTW: I do not believe you are sorry! Hard to tell in comments like this, but I think probably you are not.

And nor should you be! (Perhaps for being sweary, but I am a reformed potty mouthed person - so a bit of a snow flake in that department)

Re: React created roadblocks in our enterprise app

#236

Post by aarpmcgee »

midrus wrote: post #175
iagorodriguez wrote: post #36

The problem is not about react or not react, the problem is how to align big team to create an application. If a big team is going to be working on it you need some strong opinions around it. Do not mess with the package.json. I cant stress this enough. Actually, the most important file in your whole application is the package.json. Almost nobody should be allowed to add additional dependencies because is the main po…

> If a big team is going to be working on it you need some strong opinions around it. You are just stating the problem the article complains about. Whose opinions are those? You need to take a lot of decisions. Moreover, those decisions which seemed good (to you...or the one that dictates those strong opinions) at the time you took it, are not valid just months or years down the road. So you will need to reevaluate t…

Curious what’s on your radar for alternatives. Ember?

Re: React created roadblocks in our enterprise app

#237

Post by satya71 »

> Indeed, React is mostly backward-compatible, but the ecosystem around React is not. Developers and third-party libraries will always use the latest features and architecture patterns, while old experiments will be left behind to die. This should not be a problem for small and medium-sized projects because you can adapt much more easily. But for big multi-year projects, these experiments can be a deal-breaker.

I really wanted to use React for my current project and it would have sped up development. But I was afraid of this attitude of breaking things that pervades the ecosystem. I'm using HTML + Alpine.js. It's more work, but no breaking changes in libraries so far. I'm still not sure I made the right call. Only time will tell.

Re: React created roadblocks in our enterprise app

#238

Post by [deleted] »

mrcartmenez wrote: post #232

The problem was not React it was .Net developers. Angular is worse in this regard because the .Net developers feel more confident and charge ahead writing terrible code that is only == to shite rather than === to good. Learn the fucking language first you ahhgsvsvsgsjdhwbdksbdvrievevdjajavsgwgdvshsvevejahahagagagagahgagagagagagagagjgjghgahhagagagahahhahaha

[deleted]

Re: React created roadblocks in our enterprise app

#239

Post by 13rac1 »

erlich wrote: post #212
zmmmmm wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still kind of stuck on the fact that they brought a team of .NET devs on to do a React project. What did they think was doing to happen when they used a team with no experience in the technology stack chosen? The conversation should have started with "What skills do the implementation team have?" before tech was chosen.

Is there a frontend framework you can choose that suits .NET devs? Maybe this would have been a better choice if there was. Maybe Angular was better. Or Ember.

Yes, now, but not then https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor It's just .NET and C#
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