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One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

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Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#61

Post by stretchcat »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

Materials aging in space is a pretty deep subject. That it is the Russian Zvevda module that is leaking/cracking is likely related to the fact that it is also the oldest module in the ISS. The ISS is/was scheduled to be retired in 2024 (aka 3 years from now) but there are calls to keep it going. My fantasy would be to have SpaceX move it into the Lunar L1 Lagrange point which would keep it in use but it would have to…

Are tidal forces a significant source of strain on the ISS, due to the size of the station putting different parts of it in slightly different orbits? And if so, would these forces be less at a lagrange point?

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#62

Post by MisterTea »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

Materials aging in space is a pretty deep subject. That it is the Russian Zvevda module that is leaking/cracking is likely related to the fact that it is also the oldest module in the ISS. The ISS is/was scheduled to be retired in 2024 (aka 3 years from now) but there are calls to keep it going. My fantasy would be to have SpaceX move it into the Lunar L1 Lagrange point which would keep it in use but it would have to…

> Parking it in L4 or L5 could keep it for future generations but it would be even more of a challenge to go visit.

"If your planet has one or more broken down space stations on its lawn, you might be a redneck colony." (Sorry.)

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#63

Post by rtkwe »

vaduz wrote: post #17
akiselev wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That it is the Russian Zvevda module that is leaking/cracking is likely related to the fact that it is also the oldest module in the ISS. Definitely sounds like it. They can't identify the leak on the inside so it doesn't sound like a micrometeoroid impact and they suspect a second leak that is so small they need a microscope to verify: > "So far, we have found one place and suspect another, where as some kind of l…

It completes a cycle of heating and cooling every 90 minutes as it orbits. The temperature differential between sunlit/shaded is quite large, so even though it certainly does not heat to +120C / cool down to -100 C as there is just not enough time, it would still put some stress on it.

The hull where they're able to manually inspect it shouldn't be going through quite that extreme of a temperature differential because it's wrapped in insulation and protective layers. But it's also almost 21 years old so even the smaller actual cycle is probably getting to it combined with all the other mechanical stresses from equipment and thruster firings.

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#64

Post by calibas »

snoshy wrote: post #51
spike021 wrote: post #32

Not a big space person, but this makes me wonder: why have we not planned for a new ISS? We must have better tech nowadays from all the working countries/groups currently involved, plus SpaceX and other space companies' backing that would not have existed as it does now back when this ISS was first designed/created.

Largely because it's a fantastically expensive undertaking, and hasn't quite borne out the fruits that were speculated about over the years. USA provides a huge bulk of the funding, expertise, and personnel required to keep the program running. That's not to say that Russia, Canada, Japan, etc. don't do their part, but it's really not as much of a truly global joint effort as you might be led to believe. Then there's…

>Then there's a genuine question of what this enormous expenditure truly buys us.

It helps to answer the question of whether or not humans can even survive long term away from Earth. Sure, if you judge it purely by the price tag, it's not doing very well. If you judge it by the scientific, societal and philosophical implications, we're not spending nearly enough.

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#65

Post by lmilcin »

maxerickson wrote: post #35
sailingparrot wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My bet is the issue is most likely stresses due to vibrations under pressure and pressure changes. So you are saying it's degrading?

These discussions about materials are often difficult, because there are meaningfully different processes that are lumped together in everyday language. Mechanical stresses leading to failure at a particular point are certainly a form of degradation, but I believe they mean degradation in the sense where the entire body of the material is undergoing some change (like a plastic bottle fogging or such). I think seeking…

I took liberty to look through the literature and it seems change of physical and chemical properties of material due to all types conditions (including physical stresses) is covered by the term.

I am not into mechanical science that much, I have always treated degradation as a kind of surface or volume phenomena where the material looses its properties due to temperature, radiation, age, chemical reaction, etc. For mechanical effects there are already very good terms like metal fatigue and stress induced cracking.

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#66

Post by rtkwe »

lsllc wrote: post #42
ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

Materials aging in space is a pretty deep subject. That it is the Russian Zvevda module that is leaking/cracking is likely related to the fact that it is also the oldest module in the ISS. The ISS is/was scheduled to be retired in 2024 (aka 3 years from now) but there are calls to keep it going. My fantasy would be to have SpaceX move it into the Lunar L1 Lagrange point which would keep it in use but it would have to…

I think we need a "Space New Deal", I'm honestly saddened by the lack of progress in space in my lifetime. I mean we've done some great work, but we haven't made any giant leaps since getting to the moon 51.5 years ago. Thankfully, we do have SpaceX et. al. who really are making some big strides -- but how do we multiply & speed up that effort? ... sorry, I'm being selfish, but I really want to go to Mars.

There has to be some revenue stream beyond just satellite launches and government research. Right now there's only so many reasons to go to space and a lot of those are pretty small markets or able to be served by one or very few provider(s) pretty well.

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#67

Post by Waterluvian »

MisterTea wrote: post #62
ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

Materials aging in space is a pretty deep subject. That it is the Russian Zvevda module that is leaking/cracking is likely related to the fact that it is also the oldest module in the ISS. The ISS is/was scheduled to be retired in 2024 (aka 3 years from now) but there are calls to keep it going. My fantasy would be to have SpaceX move it into the Lunar L1 Lagrange point which would keep it in use but it would have to…

> Parking it in L4 or L5 could keep it for future generations but it would be even more of a challenge to go visit. "If your planet has one or more broken down space stations on its lawn, you might be a redneck colony." (Sorry.)

That's hilarious. Is that from anywhere beyond being a take on that one comedian's shtick?

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#68

Post by rtkwe »

HPsquared wrote: post #40
spiritplumber wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ISS mostly happened because it was a way to keep ex-Soviet aerospace scientists and engineers doing aerospace things rather than, say, go build ICBMs for third world countries. Same as Arecibo happened because the USAF wanted a big radar and the Hubble happened because (I forgot which spy agency it was) had a spare satellite. Sad when you think about it...

Satellites in general happened as a result of an arms race.

The space race at all was 90% a pissing match between the USSR and the USA.

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#69

Post by rtkwe »

input_sh wrote: post #43
spike021 wrote: post #32

Not a big space person, but this makes me wonder: why have we not planned for a new ISS? We must have better tech nowadays from all the working countries/groups currently involved, plus SpaceX and other space companies' backing that would not have existed as it does now back when this ISS was first designed/created.

We do have plans for its replacement. Axiom is going to launch three modules, starting from 2024. When it's time to retire ISS (2028 probably), Axiom's modules will detach, effectively becoming ISS 2.0. I'm fine with ISS being open for commercial operations, but can't help but feel unease by the entire ISS being a commercial endeavour. But then again, about a fifth of NASA's budget goes to keeping the lights on in IS…

I'll believe it when there's more than renders or they've booked a rocket. The current decomm date floating around for the ISS is 2025 so they're not long left.

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#70

Post by desine »

qayxc wrote: post #52
renewiltord wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Starship comes online, building a thing like this will be hecka fast.

Nope - there'll be not much difference. It's not just the getting things into space that's the hard and costly part. Modules take years to design, build, and test. That's why the current trend moves towards ever smaller and thus cheaper satellites and big launchers like Delta IV Heavy, Ariane 5, and Falcon Heavy barely see any action at all. Starship would enable single-launch space stations, yes. But there are no si…

It's a self-feeding culture. Launches were expensive, so you designed your spacecraft very thoroughly for many years before sending it up. If launches have become cheap, in part due to iterative design processes and letting oneself fail, then the same techniques can be applied to orbiting bodies. Launch a bunch of cheap inflatable labs, test them in real (out of) world conditions, and iterate towards a final design faster
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