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TSA Threatens To Cancel All Flights Out Of Texas If ‘Groping Bill’ Passed

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Re: TSA Threatens To Cancel All Flights Out Of Texas If ‘Groping Bill’ Passed

#21

Post by scott_s »

chopsueyar wrote: post #18
scott_s wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who the heck gave the TSA so much power? It's not that the TSA has that much power, it's where their power is derived from. The TSA is a federal authority, and all federal laws supercede state and local laws, per the Constitution ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_Clause ).

Well, there is also the 10th amendment, but we usually beat that down with some interstate commerce argument. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_S...

In order for that to be relevant, you'd have to argue that the President does not have the authority to establish the TSA.

Re: TSA Threatens To Cancel All Flights Out Of Texas If ‘Groping Bill’ Passed

#22

Post by sp332 »

scott_s wrote: post #14
ck2 wrote: post #12

Even the politics are theater. Texas backed down the moment they were threatened. Who the heck gave the TSA so much power? They cannot even be defunded. Meanwhile congress voted themselves special exemptions to bypass the TSA searches, so they don't even care what happens.

Who the heck gave the TSA so much power? It's not that the TSA has that much power, it's where their power is derived from. The TSA is a federal authority, and all federal laws supercede state and local laws, per the Constitution ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_Clause ).

I still don't think the TSA can suspend all flights out of Texas just 'cause.

Re: TSA Threatens To Cancel All Flights Out Of Texas If ‘Groping Bill’ Passed

#23

Post by [deleted] »

sonnekki wrote: post #9

The commenter "seeker" asks the question: "Since when can the TSA cancel flights in airports that they neither own or manage? Last I checked, most of the large Texas airports were owned and managed by cities in which they reside." Who does own these airports? I think the TSA is bluffing implying that they can directly cancel flights, but they certainly have the power to deny anyone past security such that there are n…

[deleted]

Re: TSA Threatens To Cancel All Flights Out Of Texas If ‘Groping Bill’ Passed

#24

Post by scott_s »

sp332 wrote: post #22
scott_s wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who the heck gave the TSA so much power? It's not that the TSA has that much power, it's where their power is derived from. The TSA is a federal authority, and all federal laws supercede state and local laws, per the Constitution ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_Clause ).

I still don't think the TSA can suspend all flights out of Texas just 'cause.

Apparently they can.

I don't mean to be glib, but I'm not aware of prohibition against it, and if they had done it, it is quite possible that either Congress or the courts could force them to renege on the decision. (The President has ultimate authority over them, so he could always order the decision reversed, but that's normal chain of command, not checks-and-balances.) But legally, it appears they do have that power.

Re: TSA Threatens To Cancel All Flights Out Of Texas If ‘Groping Bill’ Passed

#25

Post by dexen »

scott_s wrote: post #19
Freesider wrote: post #7

The american people could never easily spot totalitarian acts by the government. The 'destruction of personal rights' is all over the country and all over multiple areas of life. It's time for everyone to make a stand, not just Texas.

Contrary to your view, I think this is how reasonably democratic societies deal with privacy and personal rights: through politics, not bloodshed. Your suggestion, taken literally, is a call to revolution which would directly result in a drastic reduction in many people's practical rights, including the right to not be dead.

My impression -- the grief's not about how the problem is dealt with, but that it's just swept under the rug instead.

> Your suggestion, taken literally, is a call to revolution (...)

Such voices aren't very dangerous in normal circumstances, as they don't appeal to wider audiences until those audiences become quite edgy for other reasons. Such voices, taken statistically, are an indicator of how close to serious unrest the society as a whole is. Which, nb., is another reason free speech is necessary for functional democracy.

Re: TSA Threatens To Cancel All Flights Out Of Texas If ‘Groping Bill’ Passed

#26

Post by bruce511 »

At the end of the day the people with all the power are too apathetic to wield it.

The State doesn't want the airport shut-down, that's bad for business. It would cause all kinds of problems even if they were closed for a relatively short period of time. Dallas is of course a hub, so the impact on travelers would go _far_ beyond the Texan borders.

The airlines (especially those with hubs in Texas) are quaking in their boots. The disruption this would have on the schedules would be epic.

The TSA with usual Federal un-accountability is prepared to play chicken.

The real people with the power are of course the voters and passengers. But it would take a concerted effort of "the many" to get the TSA disbanded. And while TSA disbandment is probably too extreme, what it could use is some oversight and political accountability.

At the end of the day though this isn't a big enough issue to change a person's vote. So all that happens is that personal liberties are eroded one grope at a time.

Re: TSA Threatens To Cancel All Flights Out Of Texas If ‘Groping Bill’ Passed

#27

Post by mdiep »

sonnekki wrote: post #9

The commenter "seeker" asks the question: "Since when can the TSA cancel flights in airports that they neither own or manage? Last I checked, most of the large Texas airports were owned and managed by cities in which they reside." Who does own these airports? I think the TSA is bluffing implying that they can directly cancel flights, but they certainly have the power to deny anyone past security such that there are n…

Not only that, but airports don't need to use the TSA: they can opt to use a private security firm. (Source: http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2010/11/amid-airport-...)

Maybe Texas should make a law preventing the TSA from handling security at any Texas airports.

Re: TSA Threatens To Cancel All Flights Out Of Texas If ‘Groping Bill’ Passed

#28

Post by scott_s »

dexen wrote: post #25
scott_s wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrary to your view, I think this is how reasonably democratic societies deal with privacy and personal rights: through politics, not bloodshed. Your suggestion, taken literally, is a call to revolution which would directly result in a drastic reduction in many people's practical rights, including the right to not be dead.

My impression -- the grief's not about how the problem is dealt with, but that it's just swept under the rug instead. > Your suggestion, taken literally, is a call to revolution (...) Such voices aren't very dangerous in normal circumstances, as they don't appeal to wider audiences until those audiences become quite edgy for other reasons. Such voices, taken statistically, are an indicator of how close to serious unr…

I have a problem with the situation with the TSA as well, but it deeply bothers me when people so easily fall back on such hyperbolic rhetoric. It poisons discourse and prevents rational discussion by flattening subtleties.

Re: TSA Threatens To Cancel All Flights Out Of Texas If ‘Groping Bill’ Passed

#29

Post by jsm386 »

scott_s wrote: post #14
ck2 wrote: post #12

Even the politics are theater. Texas backed down the moment they were threatened. Who the heck gave the TSA so much power? They cannot even be defunded. Meanwhile congress voted themselves special exemptions to bypass the TSA searches, so they don't even care what happens.

Who the heck gave the TSA so much power? It's not that the TSA has that much power, it's where their power is derived from. The TSA is a federal authority, and all federal laws supercede state and local laws, per the Constitution ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_Clause ).

Chief Justice John Marshall expressed it eloquently back in 1819 in his opinion of Mcculloch v. Maryland: That where this repugnancy exists, that authority which is supreme must control, not yield to that over which it is supreme.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCulloch_v._Maryland http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&#3...

Re: TSA Threatens To Cancel All Flights Out Of Texas If ‘Groping Bill’ Passed

#30

Post by jdp23 »

mdiep wrote: post #27
sonnekki wrote: post #9

The commenter "seeker" asks the question: "Since when can the TSA cancel flights in airports that they neither own or manage? Last I checked, most of the large Texas airports were owned and managed by cities in which they reside." Who does own these airports? I think the TSA is bluffing implying that they can directly cancel flights, but they certainly have the power to deny anyone past security such that there are n…

Not only that, but airports don't need to use the TSA: they can opt to use a private security firm. (Source: http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2010/11/amid-airport-... ) Maybe Texas should make a law preventing the TSA from handling security at any Texas airports.

Private security firms at airports operate under the TSA's direction.
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