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Why webcams aren’t good enough

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Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#231

Post by vr46 »

dingaling wrote: post #68
vr46 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the cost of a small desk tripod, £50, and Canon’s latest Webcam Utility, I was able to repurpose a 2012 DSLR (1DX) into an absolutely fantastic webcam.

A 1DX is still an outstanding camera in professional use daily, well beyond overkill for a webcam! Still commands around 1000GBP on the used market. Any of the Canon xxD or M series from the same era would be sufficient at a fraction of the cost.

Deffo overkill, but it was all I had kicking around (shucks) and works a treat.

Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#232

Post by nucleardog »

my_username_is_ wrote: post #116
guenthert wrote: post #111

Hmmh, I couldn't care less about webcams. I'm not that pretty and not all that eager to share the interior of my dwelling. I do however care about sound quality. With my accent and mumbling I need all the help I can get. Others reported that the camera in their phone beats most webcams, but what about the microphone(-array)? The sound quality of phablets hasn't quite won me over. Is there anything better available, s…

For a similar price point to these webcams, you can get a very good microphone. The Blue Yeti ($130) is usually one of the go-to recommendations https://www.bluemic.com/en-us/products/yeti/

I wouldn't get one just for audio calls.

The Yeti is what I have. It's a condenser microphone. Condenser microphones generally are more sensitive to quiet sounds and pick up range a bit better, but that means they also pick up _everything_ else much better. That's great if you're in a sound studio, but most of us are not.

You'll make your life easiest if you get clean audio in _before_ you start trying to do further processing to clean it up.

I already had the Yeti on hand, and it was a couple days of tweaking and tuning to get to the point where it will pick up my voice from 6-8" away clearly (so it's not directly in front of my face on camera) but not also transmitting the pitter-patter of every raindrop on the sidewalk outside.

If you're looking for a mic just for audio/video calls, I'd look towards a dynamic mic. Something like the Audio-Technica AT2005 ($80) is generally pretty well reviewed, is 2/3 the price of the Yeti, and still includes a built-in ADC so you can just plug it in via USB and call the job done (don't need to add a bunch of input boxes/etc).

Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#233

Post by acdha »

totalZero wrote: post #215
acdha wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Johnny Ives was obsessed with thinness - it’s the same problem which lead to the bad keyboards. Now they’ve been putting people who haven’t forgotten about usability in charge I would not be surprised if the next case design included a non-terrible webcam since it’s unlikely that anyone is going to stop video conferencing even if we do go back to the office.

Jony Ive* Fair point, but Apple isn't the only company selling laptops with ho-hum webcams.

Thanks for the correction - there’s an iOS autocomplete joke in there somewhere.

I think what we see is basically showing the difference between the phone and laptop markets: people buy new phones to get better cameras because that’s one of the most common activities for a phone but the same is not true for laptops (or at least wasn’t previously), and there’s a much lower threshold where a mediocre camera prevents a sale. That lack of pressure means there isn’t much of a check on either cost cutting or pursuit of thinner/lighter designs.

Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#234

Post by yborg »

spijdar wrote: post #229
totalZero wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jony Ive* Fair point, but Apple isn't the only company selling laptops with ho-hum webcams.

Just an anecdote, but I've always felt the webcams on macs I've used the past few years are worse than much cheaper Wintel PC webcams. Could just be cognitive bias though, since everyone complains about mac webcams all the time.

Company outfitted us with Dell Alienware m17 R3 laptops, an expensive gaming model that has built-in head tracking. The camera is a 720p with terrible image quality, worse than any Macbook. So no, I don't think Apple is below standard here.

Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#235

Post by Fnoord »

rozab wrote: post #220
barkingcat wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yah this precisely. Why are phones allowed to have bulges and chins and notches, but laptops somehow are too "thin" to do the same? For that matter, why hasn't anyone made a laptop screen with a centre notch? people accepted that for phones and now every large manufacturer of phones use notches in their phones. Laptops are much larger and heavier so it's really doable to include a better camera. The only thing blocki…

Nobody buys a laptop for the webcam. That's why.

Exactly, it just has to be good enough. Same with front facing camera. What isn't good enough is Dell's XPS bottom camera.

Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#236

Post by acdha »

spijdar wrote: post #229
totalZero wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jony Ive* Fair point, but Apple isn't the only company selling laptops with ho-hum webcams.

Just an anecdote, but I've always felt the webcams on macs I've used the past few years are worse than much cheaper Wintel PC webcams. Could just be cognitive bias though, since everyone complains about mac webcams all the time.

I think it’d be interesting to compare with equivalent price points. Does a $2500 PC have a better camera than a MacBook Pro or is it really more like everyone is skimping and Mac owners are just more vocal about expecting something closer to a mid-2010s iPhone?

Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#237

Post by crakhamster01 »

I went down this rabbit hole a few months back when I was looking to buy a webcam for a new gaming PC that I had built. Also reached the same conclusion as the author (i.e. all webcams are shit).

I ended up using a mirrorless camera that I bought in 2015 and hooked it up to my PC via mini-HDMI + this USB capture device (https://www.amazon.com/Elgato-Cam-Link-Broadcast-Camcorder/d...).

The video quality is incredible and set up is fairly simple. It also works with the Macbook Pro I use for my job, which is great since the webcam on that is also garbage.

Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#238

Post by BlargMcLarg »

warkdarrior wrote: post #170
clairity wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

an unsupported assertion is not conclusive proof. we’ve seen that people have been trying to substitute in-person meetings with video calls, but that doesn’t prove any additional utility beyond a conference call. even in educational or therapy/coaching situations, a recorded instructional video accompanied by a phone checkin likely has better outcomes than video chats.

> even in educational or therapy/coaching situations, a recorded instructional video accompanied by a phone checkin likely has better outcomes than video chats. This just screams "citation needed." Video chat is hugely useful whenever there is any kind of discussion, debate, or negotiation. With video chat you can read facial expressions, cut down on overlapping speech and interruptions, etc.

>cut down on overlapping speech and interruptions

Never seen video chat be a good substitute for poor etiquette. People still decide to interrupt one another. FWIW, this problem also occurs in-person on a daily basis with most people.

>With video chat you can read facial expressions

This is a double-edged sword. Some facial expressions are better off not read. Facial expressions are routinely misinterpreted. Worse, it creates an incentive to turn facial expressions into facial expression etiquette, which is both annoying to the person, and removes any reason to even use facial expressions.

I can accept video chat in small groups (sub-5) for a short time in professional settings. Anything other than that feels suffocating and limiting. There definitely is an obsession with video chat which has yet to be proven, by a majority who are trying to (poorly) mimic the workfloor.

Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#239

Post by BlargMcLarg »

Sunspark wrote: post #182
stretchcat wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Narcissistic managers demanding everybody on their team use webcams during meetings hardly refutes clairity post.

Wanting to see one's colleagues is not narcissism. There's a valid accessibility reason as being able to see the other person helps people with hearing challenges and also, it's pretty rude to refuse to let yourself be seen. I never understood people who "didn't want to be seen" on camera during meetings (especially meetings with hearing accessibility issues) because those same people were willing to work in the phys…

>The way I see it, if you refuse to be seen in a virtual meeting, you should _also_ refuse to be seen in person as well

Unfortunately, I don't have a golden goose. Virtual meetings, by virtue of being new, gave me an opportunity to push back onto the need of seeing one another. Not being in the office would be met with manager talks.

>also, it's pretty rude to refuse to let yourself be seen.

Are we really doing this? There are so many things that are rude. Not everything has to be met with a resounding "yes" because on a whim, people decide to mimic the work floor to the T without thinking further. I enjoy my visual privacy. To me, it is even more rude to force someone out of their visual privacy for a prolonged time multiple times a day, let alone having to stare at one's own face because the app refuses to build in a way to remove your own video feed without closing it entirely.

Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#240

Post by mimo84 »

After struggling with different webcams, including the MacBook Pro camera, I opted for this setup: - Canon RP - 50mm Canon lens - Tripod located between my two monitors

All it fully tax deductible, amazing quality and even more flexibility when I have a meeting, for example ability to show my desk.

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