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Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

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51–60 of 194 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

#51
post #3

Fees? Sure, a service might charge you a small rate per email, but are they going to charge you for just one email at a time? Probably not. But that could easily be a problem for a news site.

I guess there would need to be a 3rd party or even in house token system where you buy something like 1000 token for a dollar. And you can spend x tokens to view an article. Online advertising like Google ads is essentially doing this for ad views/clicks

I suppose a news site could offer monthly billing based on usage rather than a flat fee. Surely someone has tried it. But then, consider all the pay sites that are linked here on HN that you might only look at occasionally.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

#52
post #9

I get stock quotes with 15 minute delay. If I want real time, I am charged 2 cents. At the end of the month all the 2 cent charges are summed and added to my monthly fee. News sites could easily do something similar

But people into finance are already pretty much into money...

I still view the internet as something that should be free and any transaction pisses me off. No matter how cheap it is I will avoid having to pay unless one of the conditions are met:

- I really need the article in question

- It's something substantial that I really think is worth money (e.g. a book)

For example, if I spend 2 cent on an article that turns out to be clickbait I will be royally pissed. Which I acknowledge is totally absurd because 2 cents affects my financial situation in no way whatsoever. But this is not how it feels to me. Logically I shouldn't even think about it at all, it's not worth even thinking about. But this is not how this works.

I'm pretty sure that people dealing with stocks are generally less bothered having to deal in stuff because they are in the middle of the economic model (it makes them money as well as takes it) whereas I'm purely at the end of it, only spending.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

#53

People don't like to do transactions. It taxes our brains and makes us make decisions constantly. We like all you can eat and watch as much as you like. Paying for things sucks even if you just pay small amounts.

maybe whats needed is a system that tallies up the sites you've visited and at the end of the month you can just say, allocate 5 bucks among them. Or if you've had a rough month, maybe don't give anything. Maybe you can distribute you payments once a year. Or make slight adjustments to it and not give a site any money if you feel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flattr

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

#54
post #33

People don't like to do transactions. It taxes our brains and makes us make decisions constantly. We like all you can eat and watch as much as you like. Paying for things sucks even if you just pay small amounts.

I get this, but also there's a class of things where we know we're constantly being charged by use, and we don't constantly think about it. Gas, electricity, water are all cases where my use is metered, I _could_ try to micromanage it on a daily basis, but so long as my bills don't vary wildly from month to month, I don't pay especially close attention. To the degree that I self-regulate my use, it's more about the e…

Very nice points. People are not that averse to metered pricing. There is a strong aversion towards unpredictable charges.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

#55
post #4

Processing a credit card costs $0.02 per card, plus interchange of up to 3%. Debit processing is $0.22 cents plus 0.05%. Both of these are the baseline cost, your merchant processor often won't be able to even get these rates for their own wholesale rates. Now try and build a micropayments ecosystem ontop of this infrastructure that is very expensive to interact with (in the context of $0.01 charges). Amazon can do i…

The answer to this, which I am a little surprised no one has tried to implement (maybe someone has tried?), is to charge the end customer in some larger amount - say $5 or $10, and then draw down the micro transaction amount as you go. So if you could pay $5 a month (or at a time) but gain access to every article, site, video, piece of content etc, and it auto deducts from your balance then you don't have the transac…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

#56
There are a lot of complications to this, but I'm optimistic that eventually this will be a more common user experience.

1. Credit card vendors have flat fees that will eat up a whole transaction if it's too small. For instance, strip has a flat 30c fee. This means the only reasonable way to do this is to have a user pre-pay a large sum and reduce from that, or to batch their transactions and extend them some credit. The former dissuades people from making a payment at all, and the latter runs the risk of bounced charges or users never purchasing enough to justify the charge.

2. There is no universal payments API. Browsers are starting to work on this with the w3c web payments standard https://www.w3.org/Payments/ but this is just for user input. You still have to work with companies like Stripe or PayPal to then actually make the charge.

3. Dark patterns are more successful. You see this with a lot of game currencies. By forcing users into larger purchases, you can get them to justify spending more (e.g. bundling multiple items into one package, maybe with "discounts") and if you sell your own currency, you can make the values not add up evenly so that the user has leftover balance that they perceive as being "wasted" unless they buy more.

I work on a web extension that provides a javascript API for making payments using the Bitcoin Lightning network: https://lightningjoule.com/. I really love the possibilities that small payments open up, and have been working to smooth out the UX of having to confirm a payment every time: https://medium.com/@wbobeirne/introducing-joule-allowances-2.... However it's still a long way from any mainstream adoption.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

#58

Because payments are a for-profit industry. If we had some kind of digital money that could be transferred without any fees (because, say, the infrastructure was operated by the government, under the assumption that a medium of exchange that doesn’t take a few percent off every transaction is a Public Good we should have) then it would be much easier to see if micropayments are actually a thing that anyone is willing…

The US already has a government-facilitated money transfer system that was specifically created to make small electronic money transfers accessible for more people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACH_Network

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

#60

Because payments are a for-profit industry. If we had some kind of digital money that could be transferred without any fees (because, say, the infrastructure was operated by the government, under the assumption that a medium of exchange that doesn’t take a few percent off every transaction is a Public Good we should have) then it would be much easier to see if micropayments are actually a thing that anyone is willing…

Nano is a cryptocurrency that is completely feeless. It's the only feeless payment system I know of. (This is not an endorsement, though the handful of transactions I've done with it over the past couple years worked as advertised.)
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