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Climate change: US emissions in 2020 in biggest fall since WWII

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Re: Climate change: US emissions in 2020 in biggest fall since WWII

#61
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source? Anecdotally most folks I know have had to burn through their savings after living off of unemployment or going through underemployment this past year.

Anecdotally as someone in a family all of whom are thriving financially during the pandemic, here are possible reasons it could be true. * My student loan payments are frozen, I believe the total balance of student loans that are frozen is something like 85% country wide. * People working remotely = low transit expenses. * No live events = low entertainment expenses. * Raging pandemic = low travel expenses. * Investm…

> stock market has been very profitable since march. I made 100% last year just on random long term investment.

Hmm. All this makes me wonder if the country opening back up is going to cause the market to flatten out for a bit as people have less money and incentive to invest. Food for thought.

Re: Climate change: US emissions in 2020 in biggest fall since WWII

#65
post #34
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, everything except the hydrogen part sounds like a good move.

Hydrogen as part is totally reasonable. It gives us hydrocarbon density without us needing to add to the CO2 in the atmosphere. The important thing to remember when discussing it is that it's an energy storage medium, not an energy generation medium. Most of the time I get irritated is when people treat hydrogen as the latter. But if our culture is just too damn wedded to cars for now, and battery tech just isn't the…

Hydrogen vehicles will never become popular. There are several reasons for this:

- To be carbon-neutral, the hydrogen must come from splitting water.[1] Currently hydrogen comes from steam reforming of methane (which releases lots of carbon).[2]

- Hydrogen is a very pernicious molecule. It will slowly leak through metal and weaken it.[3]

- Hydrogen vehicles must be refueled at special fueling stations. Electric vehicles can be charged anywhere there is electricity (such as at home).

- Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are more expensive than battery electric vehicles. Toyota sells the Mirai for $57,500 and loses money on each one.

- Storage and transportation of hydrogen is very difficult. It must either be stored in gaseous form at very high pressure, or in liquid form at 20 degrees above absolute zero. Current vehicles use high pressure tanks, which also require high pressure pumps. Many hydrogen stations can only provide 5,000psi pumps, which means you'll only get half a tank (and half of your expected range).[4]

- Hydrogen is more flammable than gasoline (it will ignite in a much wider range of mixtures with oxygen).[5] Unlike gasoline, the flame is invisible in daytime. Unlike gasoline, hydrogen is invisible and has no smell, making leaks undetectable without special equipment. If an odorant is added to the hydrogen, it will likely damage the fuel cell.

- Hydrogen is more expensive than gasoline and far more expensive than electricity. Even with subsidies, refilling a Toyota Mirai costs over $80.[4] That gives you just over 300 miles of range. My Tesla Model 3 has the same range and a full charge costs me $6 at home. Supercharging is also cheaper, at around $25.

- Batteries got cheap faster than anyone predicted (except Tesla). In 2015, a study looked at past estimates of battery prices versus observed prices. They found that analysts were consistently pessimistic about cost reductions. Correcting for this, they noted that cost per kWh, "...could reach $200 by 2020." Actual cost in 2020 was $123.[6]

Given all of these disadvantages, I don't see how hydrogen vehicles could be considered reasonable. The economics, physics, safety, and convenience simply don't work out.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_splitting

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_reforming

3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement

4. https://www.cars.com/articles/fill-er-up-refueling-the-2016-...

5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_safety

6. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/04/will-falling-battery-...

Re: Climate change: US emissions in 2020 in biggest fall since WWII

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally as someone in a family all of whom are thriving financially during the pandemic, here are possible reasons it could be true. * My student loan payments are frozen, I believe the total balance of student loans that are frozen is something like 85% country wide. * People working remotely = low transit expenses. * No live events = low entertainment expenses. * Raging pandemic = low travel expenses. * Investm…

> stock market has been very profitable since march. I made 100% last year just on random long term investment. Hmm. All this makes me wonder if the country opening back up is going to cause the market to flatten out for a bit as people have less money and incentive to invest. Food for thought.

Intuition says that people who have to choose between investing and other things aren't the maority of investors.

I'm think the economy will liven up a fair bit once people are out and about spending again, possibly even over-correcting.

Re: Climate change: US emissions in 2020 in biggest fall since WWII

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard people actually say this. The horror, the horror.

For a lot of people it was their only alone time.

I only listen to podcasts while driving, so my "learning" time has been drastically reduced

Re: Climate change: US emissions in 2020 in biggest fall since WWII

#68
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electrical distribution in the US is actually aging quite badly and is in deep need of replacement of large parts of it. Inefficiency isn't entirely the problem, although many (including me) would argue that it isn't as efficient as it could be. DC power transmission at high voltages is now feasible due to new technologies, and it is more efficient as well as easier to step up/down. At large scale, even such seemingl…

Decentralization is also in the National Security interest. Makes it much harder for an adversary to take down large swaths of the US Grid.

This I'm not so sure about. It will certainly be different, but it's still an open question whether it will be easier to secure from a national security standpoint.

There's the physical security aspect of this, which is as you say, hard to take down when it's decentralized. However, as power generation gets more distributed, we'll naturally start seeing more (if not most) of these pieces of equipment be controlled over networks (private or public), and securing distributed infrastructure from a software standpoint is still a hard problem.

Just look at the state of IoT security today. It's quite bad, and that's not even realistically including nation state attackers in the threat model. I don't expect this to go well with a decentralized grid, at least not for a while initially.

Re: Climate change: US emissions in 2020 in biggest fall since WWII

#69
post #2

And personal savings are way up. But it's unlikely either of these trends will hold after 2021.

Not true... US carbon emissions have been going down for over a decade, even as population increases.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/carb...

Re: Climate change: US emissions in 2020 in biggest fall since WWII

#70
The biggest takeaway here for me is that we collectively achieved something previously considered impossible: by making different behavioral choices, as a species, we achieved the largest cut in CO2 emissions in 75 years.

It's tragic that only the threat of a deadly disease could compel such a change, but perhaps we may find other levers to help us achieve such widespread beneficial changes in the future?

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