Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down • Hacker News Board

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#571

Post by roenxi » Fri, Jan 22, 2021, 1:09 PM UTC

zaphar wrote: post #567

roenxi wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am unaware, I'm not planning on reading the case details until after a month or two has passed. Best to get a little hindsight. That is an interesting exhibit, thanks. It has swayed me on the time-frame, I'm not sure it changes my basic view - the AWS rep is talking about literally 3 posts in mid November, one of which seems to have 450 views in 5 days if the eye icon means what I think. From politely raising 3 hor…

Let's game plan for a moment. You are a hosting provider. One of your customers is violating your TOS and posting content that is objectionable. They are potentially big and growing customer so you are giving them time to respond while you try to weight the cost and benefit of enforcement at this time. While you are working though this the customer is used as a platform to organize an attack on the government of the…

What you are presenting is the worldview of someone who is biased. I do suspect AWS was thinking that - which is why I'm not ruling out political bias. Even if that interpretation of the Capitol riot somehow, miraculously, turns out to be correct there hasn't been time to prove it with evidence.

But, as chalst argues, there are interpretations where they were acting reasonably.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#572

Post by la6471 » Fri, Jan 22, 2021, 1:27 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #2

Here's the denial of the TRO: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qhXD-4Kaw5dCEBv0dUM8buygEKg... Parler hasn't lost the case, just a TRO that demands reinstatement on AWS, but the ruling on the TRO requires the judge to tip their hand about the case, and Parler is going to lose. I don't think you even need to read the AWS AUP to know that Parler has no real case here. To buy Parler's contract claim, you'd have to believ…

It’s really simple. I can decide to do business with you or decide not to do business with you. Also I don’t understand what is preventing Parler from simply hosting a forum? Unless it is because none of the hosting companies want them? So that is it. Let’s stop regurgitating on this forever. Let’s move on.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#573

Post by boringg » Fri, Jan 22, 2021, 1:34 PM UTC

trident5000 wrote: post #562

SantalBlush wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems likely. They bring a weak case, and when it gets thrown out, they can say that further proves their victimhood.

Victimhood, the new oil of the 21st century.

The lifeblood of the GOP

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#574

Post by ThomPete » Fri, Jan 22, 2021, 1:38 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #569

ThomPete wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are still plenty of tweets that havent been deleted.

Yes. And it does not matter, because perfection is not required. Requiring perfection is just rhetorical trick to create false equivalency. Amazon did not required perfection from Parler. Amazon is taking down Parler, because Parler did not even pretended to care about the issue. They have not done even token effort. Amazon is not taking down Parler for few bad message Parler did missed or were ambiguous. Instead, Pa…

You are missing the point.

Why Parler? There are lots of other social media platforms out there using AWS with the same kind of rhetoric so that's not a good explanation or reason.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#575

Post by AnthonyMouse » Fri, Jan 22, 2021, 1:59 PM UTC

sammax wrote: post #570

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amazon presented a record of months of complaints about specific pieces of violent content on Parler, to which Parler not only didn't respond, but in fact waved off by saying they had a backlog of tens of thousands of similar pieces of content. They were adding six digit numbers of users a day. Was a temporary backlog that unreasonable? > Reddit bans whole subs when they get too out of hand to moderate, while Parle…

> And I think that's the root of it. "Nuke from orbit" against something that had the capacity to be saved through measures dramatically less drastic than that. But Parler _didn't even try_ any of these less drastic measures. They could have properly moderated, or if that's not possible because they were growing so fast they could have limited posts from new users, or added moderation bots, or could have blanket-bann…

> they could have limited posts from new users

They did have restrictions on new users. People accused them of suppressing leftists by doing this.

> But Parler _didn't even try_ any of these less drastic measures.

Prior to the riot their failure was no greater than that of Facebook. Parler (but not Facebook) was forced offline almost immediately after it before being given any meaningful opportunity to do anything different in response.

It's also not obvious that their existing measures wouldn't have been as effective as alternatives once their user base stabilized and the backlog was cleared.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#576

Post by someguydave » Fri, Jan 22, 2021, 2:09 PM UTC

milesdyson_phd wrote: post #515

someguydave wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Requiring strict liability..." which is why I did not write that. I would propose that moderation decisions be logged and reviewable on demand (at the plantiff's cost) in front of a reputable arbitrator of the platform's choice.

Is that even possible at any sort of scale?

if the plantiffs pay, I think so. All the platforms would need to do is log the moderation decisions they already make.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#577

Post by someguydave » Fri, Jan 22, 2021, 2:20 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #504

someguydave wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.csbj.com/premier/businessnews/lawsuit-arises-fro... >“In sum, the financial participation of the City in the Mall’s progress , the arrangements with the City police substation, and the active presence of other governmental agencies in the common areas of the Mall, constitute governmental involvement in the operation of the Mall,” the court noted. Thus, it concluded the mall’s “open and public areas ... ef…

So does every business. None of that means General Dynamics operates parks. The Marsh line of decisions you're referring to was disposed of upthread. It's dead, Jim. SCOTUS just last year said you can't expect to pretend social networks operate as public squares; you can only claim functions that are normally exclusively the province of governments.

Also General Dynamics must submit to labor rules: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/odep/program-areas/employers/fe...

The basis for title 9 regulation is that universities take Federal grants.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#578

Post by croon » Fri, Jan 22, 2021, 2:32 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #310

gameswithgo wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I downvoted you not because I thought it would intimidate you, but because it lacked any content at all. You just asserted something without explanation. It was a low quality post. The way you respond to the downvotes now also makes me think you are not even arguing in good faith, but just doing performative victimization.

A legal professional saying a case is interesting, on a forum of mostly technical people, is a contribution. Even if a small one given a lack of supporting argument. If tptacek, security researcher, says a case is no real case (even with arguments) and an attorney contradicts him then that is evidence tptacek is wrong. Realistically, I still expect Ptacek to be right - I don't see how Amazon could be forced to host s…

> A legal professional saying a case is interesting, on a forum of mostly technical people, is a contribution. Even if a small one given a lack of supporting argument.

> If tptacek, security researcher, says a case is no real case (even with arguments) and an attorney contradicts him then that is evidence tptacek is wrong.

There is no evidence lest it's explained why the former is wrong. I know for a fact that a judge with actual credentials didn't think the case had merit. Now LiquidmetalFish claims otherwise, without any supporting arguments or reasoning.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#579

Post by jmcqk6 » Fri, Jan 22, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

nickysielicki wrote: post #138

tptacek wrote: post #2

Here's the denial of the TRO: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qhXD-4Kaw5dCEBv0dUM8buygEKg... Parler hasn't lost the case, just a TRO that demands reinstatement on AWS, but the ruling on the TRO requires the judge to tip their hand about the case, and Parler is going to lose. I don't think you even need to read the AWS AUP to know that Parler has no real case here. To buy Parler's contract claim, you'd have to believ…

IANAL and I'm not saying I disagree with your conclusion, but I do think the case is more interesting than just AWS booting a malicious customer (with regards to their TOS). > there's the fact that AWS doesn't host Twitter's feed This is funny (as in, LOL funny) to point out because it makes parler seem completely inept, but it's only technically correct. They just negotiated a fat contract to host twitter, and that'…

>At the time of account termination, they were growing at a rate of hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of users per day

[citation required] This is an absurd claim.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#580

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Jan 22, 2021, 2:59 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #574

watwut wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. And it does not matter, because perfection is not required. Requiring perfection is just rhetorical trick to create false equivalency. Amazon did not required perfection from Parler. Amazon is taking down Parler, because Parler did not even pretended to care about the issue. They have not done even token effort. Amazon is not taking down Parler for few bad message Parler did missed or were ambiguous. Instead, Pa…

You are missing the point. Why Parler? There are lots of other social media platforms out there using AWS with the same kind of rhetoric so that's not a good explanation or reason.

The general class of rhetoric is not the issue. The complete failure to take action about specific, identified pieces of content when notified about it is the issue.

Now