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Android Ported to RISC-V

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Re: Android Ported to RISC-V

#11

Post by d3ckard »

AlexAltea wrote: post #8

Related: https://www.cnet.com/news/chip-designer-arm-ditches-huawei-b... Unsurprisingly, this has been done by Alibaba-owned T-Head Semiconductor. The obvious result if Chinese vendors start facing obstacles to obtain licenses to manufacture ARM-based chips (or any other non-Chinese architecture). How can anyone expect that software/hardware-bans to global superpowers can result in anything but their software/hardwar…

That's good though. That means they have to invest in R&D instead of depending on exploiting cheap labour to brute-force their way into the market.

If they invest in R&D, they need creative people who are up to date. Such people tend to bring change to the society at large(I'd say democracy is really good for creativeness to flourish).

Basically, the goal is not to expunge them from the market, the goal is to make them compete under the same rules.

Re: Android Ported to RISC-V

#12

Post by varispeed »

AlexAltea wrote: post #8

Related: https://www.cnet.com/news/chip-designer-arm-ditches-huawei-b... Unsurprisingly, this has been done by Alibaba-owned T-Head Semiconductor. The obvious result if Chinese vendors start facing obstacles to obtain licenses to manufacture ARM-based chips (or any other non-Chinese architecture). How can anyone expect that software/hardware-bans to global superpowers can result in anything but their software/hardwar…

The problem is that restrictions are not thought through. If they were banned from using Android altogether, they wouldn't be able (legally) to port it on that architecture in the first place. The same goes with the RISC-V as well - the law could be written to allow only certain countries to use it freely. These obstacles are kind of similar to patents. When you discover something and then you learn someone was first to patent it, you have to invent your own thing, so in this regard these embargos are just an inconvenience rather than a real instrument to force another country to behave in a civilised way. I wonder how authors of RISC-V must feel when their architecture is being appropriated by a country that violates human rights. Is that in the spirit of the free license?

Re: Android Ported to RISC-V

#13

Post by varispeed »

d3ckard wrote: post #11
AlexAltea wrote: post #8

Related: https://www.cnet.com/news/chip-designer-arm-ditches-huawei-b... Unsurprisingly, this has been done by Alibaba-owned T-Head Semiconductor. The obvious result if Chinese vendors start facing obstacles to obtain licenses to manufacture ARM-based chips (or any other non-Chinese architecture). How can anyone expect that software/hardware-bans to global superpowers can result in anything but their software/hardwar…

That's good though. That means they have to invest in R&D instead of depending on exploiting cheap labour to brute-force their way into the market. If they invest in R&D, they need creative people who are up to date. Such people tend to bring change to the society at large(I'd say democracy is really good for creativeness to flourish). Basically, the goal is not to expunge them from the market, the goal is to make th…

Do you know that nothing stops them from rounding up engineers are move them to a camp with an order to develop certain technology in exchange for bread and water and that their families will live? Soviet Union for example used to build entire cities where they crammed engineers from all over the Union, however rather than being exploited, the engineers had special privileges. But that easily could change with a stroke of a pen of a dictator.

Re: Android Ported to RISC-V

#14

Post by zamadatix »

varispeed wrote: post #12
AlexAltea wrote: post #8

Related: https://www.cnet.com/news/chip-designer-arm-ditches-huawei-b... Unsurprisingly, this has been done by Alibaba-owned T-Head Semiconductor. The obvious result if Chinese vendors start facing obstacles to obtain licenses to manufacture ARM-based chips (or any other non-Chinese architecture). How can anyone expect that software/hardware-bans to global superpowers can result in anything but their software/hardwar…

The problem is that restrictions are not thought through. If they were banned from using Android altogether, they wouldn't be able (legally) to port it on that architecture in the first place. The same goes with the RISC-V as well - the law could be written to allow only certain countries to use it freely. These obstacles are kind of similar to patents. When you discover something and then you learn someone was first…

If a country isn't willing to honor human rights why do you think they'll honor some foreign group's license.txt when it comes down to it?

Re: Android Ported to RISC-V

#15

Post by d3ckard »

varispeed wrote: post #13
d3ckard wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's good though. That means they have to invest in R&D instead of depending on exploiting cheap labour to brute-force their way into the market. If they invest in R&D, they need creative people who are up to date. Such people tend to bring change to the society at large(I'd say democracy is really good for creativeness to flourish). Basically, the goal is not to expunge them from the market, the goal is to make th…

Do you know that nothing stops them from rounding up engineers are move them to a camp with an order to develop certain technology in exchange for bread and water and that their families will live? Soviet Union for example used to build entire cities where they crammed engineers from all over the Union, however rather than being exploited, the engineers had special privileges. But that easily could change with a stro…

It's hard for people to be creative under pressure. Half the work in management of software companies is managing employee stress so they can do their work efficiently. My point is precisely that to get creativeness, you have to create right environment and that environment leads the way to less authoritarian rule.

Re: Android Ported to RISC-V

#16

Post by littlestymaar »

varispeed wrote: post #12
AlexAltea wrote: post #8

Related: https://www.cnet.com/news/chip-designer-arm-ditches-huawei-b... Unsurprisingly, this has been done by Alibaba-owned T-Head Semiconductor. The obvious result if Chinese vendors start facing obstacles to obtain licenses to manufacture ARM-based chips (or any other non-Chinese architecture). How can anyone expect that software/hardware-bans to global superpowers can result in anything but their software/hardwar…

The problem is that restrictions are not thought through. If they were banned from using Android altogether, they wouldn't be able (legally) to port it on that architecture in the first place. The same goes with the RISC-V as well - the law could be written to allow only certain countries to use it freely. These obstacles are kind of similar to patents. When you discover something and then you learn someone was first…

You cannot legally ban them from using Android. Google play store and other proprietary apps, sure, but the actual android OS is free software.

> The same goes with the RISC-V as well - the law could be written to allow only certain countries to use it freely

And how would the US enforce such a law abroad? Even admitting that European countries (UK included), Japan, South Korea, and most of latin America decided to pass similar laws to pleasure the US, how are the US supposed to enforce that in China (and their growing area of influence, in Africa and Central Asia)?

> I wonder how authors of RISC-V must feel when their architecture is being appropriated by a country that violates human rights. Is that in the spirit of the free license?

Unfortunately, countries not violating the human rights are too few to be a viable market (and the US is definitely not one of them).

Also, what zamadatix said.

Re: Android Ported to RISC-V

#17

Post by coldtea »

d3ckard wrote: post #11
AlexAltea wrote: post #8

Related: https://www.cnet.com/news/chip-designer-arm-ditches-huawei-b... Unsurprisingly, this has been done by Alibaba-owned T-Head Semiconductor. The obvious result if Chinese vendors start facing obstacles to obtain licenses to manufacture ARM-based chips (or any other non-Chinese architecture). How can anyone expect that software/hardware-bans to global superpowers can result in anything but their software/hardwar…

That's good though. That means they have to invest in R&D instead of depending on exploiting cheap labour to brute-force their way into the market. If they invest in R&D, they need creative people who are up to date. Such people tend to bring change to the society at large(I'd say democracy is really good for creativeness to flourish). Basically, the goal is not to expunge them from the market, the goal is to make th…

>That's good though. That means they have to invest in R&D instead of depending on exploiting cheap labour to brute-force their way into the market.

Using cheap labor, copying foreign products, and bypassing copyright worked for the US, Japan, Korea, and Taiwan when they were in their own economic rise, and thus far has been working for China.

>Basically, the goal is not to expunge them from the market, the goal is to make them compete under the same rules.

What "level field" rules would that be?

The European powers used 2/3rds of the world as colonial resources, the US was founded upon the land grab from the native Americans, and benefited from slavery for centuries, and on top of it it uses it diplomatic and military power to gain favorable trade deals, topple and influence local governments to gain them (from banana republics in L.A. to Asia and Europe), and control resources and trade routes.

Re: Android Ported to RISC-V

#18

Post by varispeed »

d3ckard wrote: post #15
varispeed wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know that nothing stops them from rounding up engineers are move them to a camp with an order to develop certain technology in exchange for bread and water and that their families will live? Soviet Union for example used to build entire cities where they crammed engineers from all over the Union, however rather than being exploited, the engineers had special privileges. But that easily could change with a stro…

It's hard for people to be creative under pressure. Half the work in management of software companies is managing employee stress so they can do their work efficiently. My point is precisely that to get creativeness, you have to create right environment and that environment leads the way to less authoritarian rule.

That's true, but if they throw enough people at it (they have plenty), something eventually will come up... Probably the result for them will be having a group of engineers that can be creative under extreme pressure and since they struggle with over-population, the loss of engineers and their families which couldn't keep up would have some positives for them as well.

Re: Android Ported to RISC-V

#19

Post by varispeed »

zamadatix wrote: post #14
varispeed wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that restrictions are not thought through. If they were banned from using Android altogether, they wouldn't be able (legally) to port it on that architecture in the first place. The same goes with the RISC-V as well - the law could be written to allow only certain countries to use it freely. These obstacles are kind of similar to patents. When you discover something and then you learn someone was first…

If a country isn't willing to honor human rights why do you think they'll honor some foreign group's license.txt when it comes down to it?

The products containing code or chips that are not allowed could be incorporated in the same regime as illegal drugs - so trading or possessing a device with such operating system or technology could be deemed illegal.

Re: Android Ported to RISC-V

#20

Post by numpad0 »

varispeed wrote: post #13
d3ckard wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's good though. That means they have to invest in R&D instead of depending on exploiting cheap labour to brute-force their way into the market. If they invest in R&D, they need creative people who are up to date. Such people tend to bring change to the society at large(I'd say democracy is really good for creativeness to flourish). Basically, the goal is not to expunge them from the market, the goal is to make th…

Do you know that nothing stops them from rounding up engineers are move them to a camp with an order to develop certain technology in exchange for bread and water and that their families will live? Soviet Union for example used to build entire cities where they crammed engineers from all over the Union, however rather than being exploited, the engineers had special privileges. But that easily could change with a stro…

There is sense of mystique associated with the Soviet Union but the best they managed to build were AKs, Soyuz, Chernobyl, all interesting and robust in its own ways but not all that competitive in terms of performance, so,
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